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Electric bicycles

Darren L

Egalitarian
Tracy and I both fancy an electric bicycle each, just for nipping to the shop, a bit of exercise and recreation, any recommendations or anything to avoid from the PFM massive?
 
Autocar did an article on the latest e-bikes recently:

https://www.autocar.co.uk/car-news/move-electric/best-electric-bikes-e-bike-every-budget-and-terrain

I use one every day, to commute between home and my office (about 7Km). We live on top of a rather steep hill, so I wanted something that behaved like a normal bike, but which gave me the oomph that my old knees could no longer manage. I looked very hard at that Ribble that's first on the Autocar list, but then found that, because of the battery, they can't send it to Swizzieland. So I ended up with an admittedly more expensive equivalent, with the needed luggage rack and (excellent) lights:

https://www.bikebox-shop.de/fahrrae...KPXjvUm4KenPJ__Lfy1J6kMTd8ohjDiYaAkXcEALw_wcB

Great gadget, which does the job I need.
 
We attended a function in Tetbury over a week ago and it coincided with a visit to Edemo Bicycles in Nailsworth to see the fairly expensive but frankly amazing Reise + Muller range.

The company haven’t reinvented the wheel, but the technology is impressive.
 
Bosch motors are best apparently. Have a mate in the trade. Definitely try & borrow or hire one first. A couple of guys went past me on a hill on Sunday, pretty impressive level of drive from the motors but it is cheating;)
 
Tern have some good options. I have an HSD S8i which I use for shopping and errands around town. A friend has the Vektron folder which fits in the "garage" of his camper van. You get a of range transmission options depending on your needs and budget. I chose the belt drive and internal hub to avoid maintenance and for cleanliness.

The Tern bikes are well made with quality components. With ebikes you get what you pay for. This bike will probably see me out as by shopper errand bike, I expect to do about 800 - 1000 miles a year and feel the investment is worthwhile in my case.

The Bosch motors work best with a particular riding style. Change down early keep your pedal speed up and increase power setting as required. Waiting until you are struggling and cadence has dropped before increasing power doesn't work well. The Bosch motor is a high revving sports car not a V8 slugger.

I still like my old road bike, and it is nice to go out for a ride for the exercise to clear my head. The old Raleigh with its 531 frame is about half the weight of the Tern and handles so well. As long as I can still throw my leg over I'll keep riding it as I have done for the last 37 years!!!
 
Anything that is decent to ride is going to be rather expensive. If all you want is healthy recreation and a toodle round, does it need a motor? On flat terrain a conventional bike is easy to pedal at modest speed, cheap and simple. Choose one (two!) for comfort, not speed,and just enjoy trundling about.
 
The Bosch motors work best with a particular riding style. Change down early keep your pedal speed up and increase power setting as required. Waiting until you are struggling and cadence has dropped before increasing power doesn't work well. The Bosch motor is a high revving sports car not a V8 slugger.


Really not sure where that idea comes from?
The Bosch performanceline mid motor bikes have some of the very highest torque ratings of ANY LEGAL road bikes (85Nm +)
I have a Haibike sduro trekking 7 (with Bosch battery and motor)
It's well made and rides like a dream...so I'd recommend one (right?) Wrong
I would steer well clear of all Bosch powered bikes (if I was you)
Bosch have adopted a very cynical marketing stance whereby they warranty the bike (for 2 yrs) ...then if the battery fails...it's unrepairable by anyone (Inc Bosch...who won't touch it) and you have to buy a new battery (at well over £600)

So why have I got one?
Well my best mate is a main dealer...so I paid less than half price...and my bike is "within warranty" while I own it.
How often do the motors fail....less than 2%
How often do the batteries fail....he's seeing about 5% within warranty and another 5% outside 2yrs
It's made some interesting conversations with customers of £3.5k plus bikes when this happens

I should add these battery failures are most always NOT cell related (the cells are generally very reliable and not made by Bosch)
It's the BMS board / handshake chip that is either failing or dieing
 
Anything that is decent to ride is going to be rather expensive. If all you want is healthy recreation and a toodle round, does it need a motor? On flat terrain a conventional bike is easy to pedal at modest speed, cheap and simple. Choose one (two!) for comfort, not speed,and just enjoy trundling about.

The issue is the flat terrain, there is none, not even on the coast road, it's all drumlins around here, so while neither of us are particularly unfit or overweight neither Tracy or myself really enjoy pedalling uphill, but it really would be for just trundling around, going into the village and certainly comfort would be a priority too, I don't mind spending a bit for a good quality bike that will last .
 
I don't mind spending a bit for a good quality bike that will last .

I'm not convinced that any e-bikes will last. If the battery is proprietary, as it seems to be in most cases, then when it fails (within 5 years, 10 if you're lucky) will replacements be available ? Maybe the aftermarket will step in, but the market is so diverse it's hard to imagine broad support for all manufacturers.

To Steve's point, here in the US $1000 gets you a pretty nice, light (especially if you forego front suspension) conventional bike. To get a reasonably light, quality e-bike you're probably looking at nearer $3k - for something that may be unserviceable in under 10 years. I have 3 bikes that I ride regularly that each cost around $1000 in the mid 90's and all are still going strong. I'd have thought a $1000 ish hybrid with a good spread of gears would allow you to get up modest hills reasonably easily.

If I needed an e-bike for a commute that was not possible with a regular bike then I could anticipate writing off $3000 every 3-5 years - that's where I see the market. However I'd have a hard time justifying it for fun.
 
I would not remain faithful to Bosch. They are good but the Yamaha motor feels more seamless to me. But it's not that important.

I would not worry about battery replacement either. I have one from 2016 that seems fine and bosch batteries can be repacked for about 300 quid last time I looked.

I only ended up with Bosch the second time because I like Cube prices and I had a spare Bosch battery after my first cube got nicked while the battery was on charge in the house.

I also would not worry about the Chinese Bafang system. I have had one on a Radrunner 2 seater bike for nearly 3 years now. Bit crude, but it has been reliable, quiet enough and overall pleasant to ride.
 
The issue is the flat terrain, there is none, not even on the coast road, it's all drumlins around here, so while neither of us are particularly unfit or overweight neither Tracy or myself really enjoy pedalling uphill, but it really would be for just trundling around, going into the village and certainly comfort would be a priority too, I don't mind spending a bit for a good quality bike that will last .
I'd shortlist the Cube Kathmandu Hybrid with that requirement. They're 2500 but 2 grand may be possible if you keep looking and can wait. Or the Cube Town Hybrid, already under 2 grand.
 
The issue is the flat terrain, there is none, not even on the coast road, it's all drumlins around here, so while neither of us are particularly unfit or overweight neither Tracy or myself really enjoy pedalling uphill, but it really would be for just trundling around, going into the village and certainly comfort would be a priority too, I don't mind spending a bit for a good quality bike that will last .
Sounds like a motor is the difference between using it and not, then, so e bike it is. A mate has a very cheap one from China, uses it a fair bit. This is a man who previously went no more a mile, and on dead flat terrain at that. Prior to that he had a series of conventional bikes sitting with flat tyres in the garage, hallway, etc.
 
The issue is the flat terrain, there is none, not even on the coast road, it's all drumlins around here, so while neither of us are particularly unfit or overweight neither Tracy or myself really enjoy pedalling uphill, but it really would be for just trundling around, going into the village and certainly comfort would be a priority too, I don't mind spending a bit for a good quality bike that will last .
This is exactly the problem with which I was faced. The hill on top of which we live averages 16%, and in some places goes up to 23% - even the road racers are up dancing on their pedals. I simply can no longer do it on the old touring bike, and I really don't want another knee operation. The motor I have is like having three extra gears below the already low bottom gear, and I only need the second one to make the hill. It's good knowing that, when the physical effort is too much, I can simply press the magic switch.
 
Sounds like a motor is the difference between using it and not, then, so e bike it is. A mate has a very cheap one from China, uses it a fair bit. This is a man who previously went no more a mile, and on dead flat terrain at that. Prior to that he had a series of conventional bikes sitting with flat tyres in the garage, hallway, etc.
My Bafang doesn't have the torque the Cube has for hills. I'd be wary if you live in a hilly area. I just use it for Strasbourg cycle paths and to get back from the pub pissed.
 
I would not worry about battery replacement either. I have one from 2016 that seems fine and bosch batteries can be repacked for about 300 quid last time I looked


I think you need to re(read) what I actually said about the Bosch batteries
 
Why do I need to?


Because you still seem to believe the batteries are no cause for concern...when they are in fact a very major one...it's not the cells that are an issue...it's the BMS boards...BUT if a cell or cells did go out of spec...chances are it would total the pack and make it unrepairable
My estimate is 70% chance

Just to satisfy your self I'm telling it how it is...why not phone someone like
https://www.electricbikebatteryrepairs.co.uk

Tell them your bosch battery won't switch on and has no power lights on it...how much to repair?

Then let's see if your still so unconcerned
 


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