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Edward Colston: Bristol slave trader statue 'was an affront'

Discussion in 'off topic' started by ks.234, Jun 8, 2020.

  1. russel

    russel ./_dazed_and_confused

    Where is the labour party aligning itself with racism?.
     
  2. Seeker_UK

    Seeker_UK I had amnesia once or twice...

    Please define what makes a person "awful" - it might make deciding which statues stay up and which come down a lot easier.
     
  3. Seeker_UK

    Seeker_UK I had amnesia once or twice...

    Yep. That's what it's all about. :)

    Apparently, it might be anti-catholic. A Catholic priest decided that because Rangers fans singing it, it was clearly anti-catholic and then reverse engineered the facts to fit. Either "Hokey Cokey" is a possible corruption of "hocus pocus" which is possibly an intentional ridicule of "hoc est enim corpus meum" (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hokey_cokey).


    Your Penny Lane example may also be false: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Penny_Lane,_Liverpool

    This highlights my concern, we may *think* we know the facts surrounding something but we could be getting it badly wrong and acting on duff gen.
     
    twotone likes this.
  4. Seeker_UK

    Seeker_UK I had amnesia once or twice...

    I think that using his financial legacy to start to deal with the hurt and other problems his deeds (and those of other slavers) have caused down the years is a far more constructive way than chucking a 150-year old lump of bronze into the Avon however good it makes you feel.
     
    twotone likes this.
  5. gavreid

    gavreid pfm Member

    The Provost of Wakefield Cathedral - that well known bastion of catholicism in West Yorkshire;)
     
    Seeker_UK likes this.
  6. Seanm

    Seanm pfm Member

    That’s for the angry mob to decide!
     
  7. Seeker_UK

    Seeker_UK I had amnesia once or twice...

    He's Anglican which is 'Catholic and reformed'. ;)
     
  8. Seanm

    Seanm pfm Member

    It’s not like protesters were presented with a choice. They’re still not, in fact, and it’s much more likely that there’ll be some reparation because of what they’ve done.

    The choice is always between vague, abstract, hypothetical “having a serious discussion about this” and action. Until action is taken, and then lots of possibilities open up.
     
  9. davidsrsb

    davidsrsb pfm Member

    Where to draw the line, Colston was an amateur.
    In 1876-78 Disraeli oversaw 5.5 million deaths in the Indian Great Famine
     
  10. gavreid

    gavreid pfm Member

    i.e they have no ties with Rome. The fact that their beliefs have some overlap with Catholicism is neither here not there. He's simply not a Catholic Priest
     
  11. Sue Pertwee-Tyr

    Sue Pertwee-Tyr Well, I can dream, can’t I?

    But this is to not only miss the point, it runs contrary to the point. The statue has been a bone of contention for decades. There has already been a calm official decision to do as you suggest, highlighted; a decision to address it, either by taking it down or by adding a new plaque stating the true nature of his business interests. That decision has been stonewalled for years, possibly also decades.

    So this action is not, as is being argued, the mob objecting to something it doesn't like, it is the people taking the matter into their own hands only after their concerns have been ignored and stonewalled for many, many years.

    It should serve as an object lesson to those doing the stonewalling, and the media shouldn't let them get away with spinning it as mob rule, as you have inadvertently done here.
     
  12. claire.foxx

    claire.foxx Trans lives matter more than cis feelings

    Ok, so recover it, melt it into a cube with an inscription that says “this statue was formerly glorifying a slave trader and was funded by a council so ingrained in racism that it no longer recognises it. It now marks a point where we can move forward as a society.”

    ... and then put it back.
     
  13. Tony L

    Tony L Administrator

    And let us not overlook the fact the Tory councillor trolled people with a gollywog for a mascot (see Martin’s link upthread). A far-right racist very actively trying to inflame the situation. This is the sort of shit decent people are up against.
     
  14. Seeker_UK

    Seeker_UK I had amnesia once or twice...

    Fair enough. I still stand by my point; it's had at least a hundred or more years as a harmless children's song until someone (Rangers fans or Anglican Priest) decided it was anti-Catholic and then somehow was proven by being connected to a story of dubious provenance that it was invented by Puritans.
     
  15. Seeker_UK

    Seeker_UK I had amnesia once or twice...

    Perhaps they could play the long game and get elected to Bristol Council and get the changes made that way. I appreciate it's not as quick or immediately satisfying as assembling a mob and toppling a lump of metal into a body of water but it can also lead to change.

    And has the plus it gets a new generation and new way of thinking into running Bristol.
     
  16. Rockmeister

    Rockmeister pfm Member

    there's Art in museums and historical artefacts in Art Galleries. Both serve a double purpose, delivering information and aesthetic pleasure IMO. I think my general point was clear?
     
  17. claire.foxx

    claire.foxx Trans lives matter more than cis feelings

    Art and artefact provenance needs to be clarified and returned to their rightful owners. A lot of stuff ppl look at in museums and artifactual inheritances to this day is stolen property and needs to be returned to the people it was stolen from, assuming we have not colonised them into oblivion, of course.
     
    twotone and gavreid like this.
  18. Seanm

    Seanm pfm Member

    Seriously, they've tried that for 30 years, with zero to show for it. Local power structures are immensely difficult to change, and that is demonstrably - 30 years! - what would be required to accomplish this one basic act of decency and respect. Now everyone's talking about British history and structural racism, and black people in Bristol don't have to put up with this living symbol of the contempt in which they're held.

    It wasn't a mob, and as long as people insist on seeing things in those terms everything, including acceptance of the situation, is going to be preferable to what is at worst a minor act of vandalism.
     
    Nick_G and gavreid like this.
  19. twotone

    twotone pfm Member

    They don’t believe in transubstantiaton (bread being turned into flesh) however they do believe in the virgin birth and our lady.
     
  20. twotone

    twotone pfm Member

    you just have to listen to the lyrics and it’s obvious it’s a parody of the catholic mass.
     

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