Early 70's Linn LP12

[dsavitsk]

Hello everyone. I am seeking guidance on an old Linn LP12. SN is under 3000 which probably dates it from 1974 or so. I picked it up in 1993, listened to it for a few years, and it has been following me around ever since. The arm I have (an old Roksan) is probably shot, and probably worthless even if functional. The table had some upgrades (possibly?) through the 80's, but none since. The motor is AC and simply plugged into the wall.

I assume this has some value to someone, either as a collectable, or as something that can be restored. So I am looking for advice on whether this is worth any effort, or if it should be filed under G. Doesn't look like I can post pics yet, so I'll need to find a way to do that if anyone wants to see it. Thanks!

 

[stevec67]

To post pics you find a photo hosting website, upload and then post a link here.

I had an early one, it was nice. There are better decks for the money IMO, so I'd say that the interest is in keeping it as a period piece with an arm of the time of selling it to a collector. If you want to go down the upgrade path I'd start with a less collectable, newer and better LP12, say an 80s job.

it's like building a rally car, you can start with a 1959 Mini and build one, fighting against its constraints all the way and end up with something that is worth less than it was when you started, having made irreversible changes to something that used to have a collector value, or you can buy a 10 year old hatch that's a better starting point, cheaper and better performing. You choose.

 

[Mynamemynaim]

it's like building a rally car, you can start with a 1959 Mini and build one, fighting against its constraints all the way and end up with something that is worth less than it was when you started, having made irreversible changes

Not quite sure your analogy holds up
Due to the modular design..the LP 12 can have bits bolted on and taken off with ease...and early decks are not particularly sought after or rare...so your not devaluing it

Just remember the dimensions changed slightly from the very early ones ...so not all parts fit

 

[stevec67]

Not quite sure your analogy holds up
Due to the modular design..the LP 12 can have bits bolted on and taken off with ease...and early decks are not particularly sought after or rare...so your not devaluing it

Just remember the dimensions changed slightly from the very early ones ...so not all parts fit

It's not all strictly bolt on. Corner braces for example leave screw holes. However, as I say, you choose. It's not a Faberge egg after all, it's a record player. The owner can do what he likes. I'd keep it period and start at a different point if I wanted to go down the upgrade path, but there's no right or wrong.

 

[guydarryl]

Interesting that you think that the arm is shot, any reason for thinking this?
If the deck was updated in the eighties then the arm is likely to be an "Artemiz", hifi shark has one listed for sale at £950 (whether or not that is realistic, I have no idea)
https://www.hifishark.com/search?q=roksan+artemiz+tonearm

My gut reaction would be to just clean up and service the deck - it was considered excellent in the day.
How much effort and money would be required to "improve" it; potentially thousands given the prices demanded by Linn products

My main concern would be the condition of the plinth, is it still square?

 

[Ponty]

Keep it as original as you can. Mine is similar vintage (2K serial number, red power switch). My advice would be to ask Peter Swain at Cymbiosis to rebuild it for you. He can then replace the consumables and check everything over. Don’t try and turn it into something it’s not. In terms of arm, mine has the SME 3009 S2 improved (original from new). Find one of these in nice condition and fit an Audio Technica VM540ML. You’ll end up with a lovely, great sounding deck.

 

[kevinrt]

If you’re lucky enough to live near the New Forest then you can’t do better than ask Phil March from Phonography to have a look at it.
He has decades of experience with LP12s and won’t change parts that don’t need replacing. There are dozens of modifications you can make to an LP12. They may alter the sound, but not all will make it sound better. My early 70’s LP12 has been kept mainly original and sounds fantastic.
If you live elsewhere, there are plenty of other experts around the country who can help.

regards

Kevin

 

[Martyn Miles]

I have an early LP12, probably 1980/81, which had never had anything done to it until last year.
Apart from a new belt, or two.
It has a Mission 774 arm, which are quite valuable I understand.
It was serviced by Audio T in Oxford.
Didn’t new a new bearing, just springs and associated parts.
And a new belt.
Works well and sounds good.
Probably last for another 40 years, but I’m unlikely to be around to see it.

 

[SteveG]

My LP12 is also an early one (S/N 1108) and both the original owner and myself have kept it pretty much as originally sold, and still with the original SM3009 arm fitted. It's been serviced of course, but while I've bought upgrade bits I've never fitted them. It still sounds lovely.

 

[cre009]

My LP12 is also an early one (S/N 1108) and both the original owner and myself have kept it pretty much as originally sold, and still with the original SM3009 arm fitted. It's been serviced of course, but while I've bought upgrade bits I've never fitted them. It still sounds lovely.

That one is early. Serial 1112 was on ebay recently with a sales receipt for 10th August 73. I now believe the retail serials probably started at 1000 or thereabouts. Earliest retail serial I have logged is 1088 from a post at vinylengine.

 

[Craig B]

That one is early. Serial 1112 was on ebay recently with a sales receipt for 10th August 73. I now believe the retail serials probably started at 1000 or thereabouts. Earliest retail serial I have logged is 1088 from a post at vinylengine.

Yes, if the serial number is below 1000 then it is a real Ariston, or started out as one.

 

[dsavitsk]

Thanks for all the information. It's very helpful. The Ariston history is fascinating.

I don't think my reviving this table is in the cards, and it sounds like worrying about preserving a collectable is not that big of an issue.

Interesting that you think that the arm is shot, any reason for thinking this?

It's a Tabriz. It was more or less functional last I tried it, but it has definitely seen better days. I think the lifter part is broken

ask Peter Swain at Cymbiosis

ask Phil March from Phonography

I'm in the US.

 

[cre009]

Yes, if the serial number is below 1000 then it is a real Ariston, or started out as one.

There are twin button LP12s out there with serials below 1000 but also above 1000. What is going on is more complex. I have also read but not been able to verify that there is 0001 S/N LP12 out there but am not confident about this claimed sighting. I have been logging early decks showing up on ebay and the absence of retail decks below 1000 is now apparent. There is another gap between 4300 and 10000 that I am less confident about because my interest was in the very early decks and was mainly logging those.

The Castle built Ariston RD11s appear in 2 ranges. The first range is from around 000050 to 000099. The decks that show up in this range have distinctive WJR initials which are believed to signify Hamish Robertson. The second range is from 000500 to 000680 or thereabouts and they do not carry those initials. At least 3 of these that have showed up have the Made in Great Britain By Ariston Audio carefully removed from the label probably by razor which is a good indication that this batch was factory sold. The patent hearing refers to Hamish purchasing 40 decks only and Ivor has complained on more than one occasion that Castle were left with a large unsold batch so these ranges are consistent.

 

[Mynamemynaim]

It's not all strictly bolt on. Corner braces for example leave screw holes

Sorry mate..got to disagree again
The corner braces are glued into the rebate in the plinth not screwed...and are not an " upgrade" that can be added as such because none corner braced have no rebate
You would simply change the plinth for a corner braced one....a "bolt together" upgrade

Sorry to be pedantic...but there really is nothing about these old things that cannot be changed...a real "triggers broom" of a deck

I did once put in plywood corner braces into an old none corner braced plinth...not an easy job to do neatly...and it was only done to add the extra top plate bolt(s) which is were the real improvement is (IMO)

 

[Martyn Miles]

This is an interesting diversion from the recent long thread about the Karousel bearing.
I got rather bored with that after a while.
It appears quite a few owners are happy with their original LP12s.

 

[Craig B]

There are twin button LP12s out there with serials below 1000 but also above 1000. What is going on is more complex. I have also read but not been able to verify that there is 0001 S/N LP12 out there but am not confident about this claimed sighting. I have been logging early decks showing up on ebay and the absence of retail decks below 1000 is now apparent. There is another gap between 4300 and 10000 that I am less confident about because my interest was in the very early decks and was mainly logging those.

The Castle built Ariston RD11s appear in 2 ranges. The first range is from around 000050 to 000099. The decks that show up in this range have distinctive WJR initials which are believed to signify Hamish Robertson. The second range is from 000500 to 000680 or thereabouts and they do not carry those initials. At least 3 of these that have showed up have the Made in Great Britain By Ariston Audio carefully removed from the label probably by razor which is a good indication that this batch was factory sold. The patent hearing refers to Hamish purchasing 40 decks only and Ivor has complained on more than one occasion that Castle were left with a large unsold batch so these ranges are consistent.

I don't know much about the back door Ariston parts that were sold as Linn. If I were to guess, I would suspect that, like most such items, they didn't go through the usual inventory control to production/sales accounting hand off, so difficult to say what went on with serial numbers.

Someone claiming to be 'Hamish' Robertson's son once came on here looking for a WJR signed Castle built RD11. It was quite some time ago, however, IIRC, he appeared to have been under the impression that the presence of his late father's initials indicated that Hamish had assembled the deck, hence him wanting one.

 

[SteveG]

That one is early. Serial 1112 was on ebay recently with a sales receipt for 10th August 73. I now believe the retail serials probably started at 1000 or thereabouts. Earliest retail serial I have logged is 1088 from a post at vinylengine.

I've got the original receipt for my one somewhere and I think it was also 1973, but can't remember the precise date.

 

[cre009]

I don't know much about the back door Ariston parts that were sold as Linn. If I were to guess, I would suspect that, like most such items, they didn't go through the usual inventory control to production/sales accounting hand off, so difficult to say what went on with serial numbers.

Someone claiming to be 'Hamish' Robertson's son once came on here looking for a WJR signed Castle built RD11. It was quite some time ago, however, IIRC, he appeared to have been under the impression that the presence of his late father's initials indicated that Hamish had assembled the deck, hence him wanting one.

The serial numbers are likely to be sequential and show up in just the 2 ranges. It only needs 1 to show up to disprove but I am fairly confident. The ones with with the label cut were all above 000600. It is possible that some were eventually rebadged to be twin button LP12s because the labels were clearly a problem for somebody to take the trouble to cut them.

I do not recall seeing that post here which is odd given the amount of forum searches I have undertaken. I think you will find it was his daughter. There is a post on VE where she enquired about whether a deck carried the initials. The signature was to denote that the deck had been inspected so presumably checked and tested.

 

[cre009]

I've got the original receipt for my one somewhere and I think it was also 1973, but can't remember the precise date.

I am interested in that deck from a build perspective.

If it is all original then it should have a heavier outer platter probably with a felt strip (if it survived) around the underside of the rim. It should also have a "hammertone" style finish on the underside of the outer and inner platter. The sub platter spindle will be a bit longer than modern spindles. The sub chassis should have a dual rib and a cross rib rather than the later welded strengthening strap. The bearing should be the silver style with a black liner.

Based on what I have logged decks just below 3000 if original will have lost the hammertone finish. It may have a silver bearing with white liner rather than black liner. It should have a sub chassis with the dual ribs but probably no cross rib.

 

[Craig B]

The serial numbers are likely to be sequential and show up in just the 2 ranges. It only needs 1 to show up to disprove but I am fairly confident. The ones with with the label cut were all above 000600. It is possible that some were eventually rebadged to be twin button LP12s because the labels were clearly a problem for somebody to take the trouble to cut them.

I do not recall seeing that post here which is odd given the amount of forum searches I have undertaken. I think you will find it was his daughter. There is a post on VE where she enquired about whether a deck carried the initials. The signature was to denote that the deck had been inspected so presumably checked and tested.

It was quite some time ago, so, yes, it could very well have been VE (and a daughter).