Dspeaker antimode 2.0
- Thread starter Rodney gold
- Start date
Thanks for the summary, Orangutan. I was just-about to order the Antimode, but my concern was that there might not be sufficient 'dynamic headroom' (if that's the phrase?). E.g., I heard that the miniDSP suffers from this, that is: when used in A/D/A, the unit has to work at various volume levels, and this means that digital resolution would need to be sacrificed. To simplify, if I have 100 volume steps, I could only use, at a given volume level, say, 10 steps for modulating the signal. Of course, the Antimode will have a better resolution than that, but I guess a large part of this will need to be sacrificed for coping with the volume range. UNLESS Antimode manages to internally compensate for different levels of input level (and re-adjusts after D/A conversion)?
Let's see what the experts say,
Best for now,
Stefan
Well, here is the reply from Finnland:
"Hello Stefan,
AM2DC uses analog volume controller, so the volume control does not in
fact affect digital headroom on the unit.
There is a separate setting for the headroom. All hiss issues can be
solved by decreasing the headroom manually and optimizing the input
voltage of the source by adjusting input sensitivity of the AM2DC (and
the output voltage of the feeding device.
Hiss issues are very rare compared to the customer base, less than 1% of
users have these problems initially."
Reassuring, isn't it? (I omitted the sender's name).
Stefan
"Hello Stefan,
AM2DC uses analog volume controller, so the volume control does not in
fact affect digital headroom on the unit.
There is a separate setting for the headroom. All hiss issues can be
solved by decreasing the headroom manually and optimizing the input
voltage of the source by adjusting input sensitivity of the AM2DC (and
the output voltage of the feeding device.
Hiss issues are very rare compared to the customer base, less than 1% of
users have these problems initially."
Reassuring, isn't it? (I omitted the sender's name).
Stefan
darrenyeats
pfm Member
I interpret the statement as "less than 1% of the users have the issue of audible hiss caused by 'initally' non-optimised output/input sensitivity", solved as described. I don't think he was referring to a fault.
antinchip
pfm Member
Interesting, thanks Stefan.
I have not yet heard back from Tom at BK but have tried some fiddling in the meantime. I bought the unit in December 2013 and it seems it shipped with April 2013 firmware so I have updated to the "latest" June 2013 firmware (go figure!). Following the update I ran a fresh "typical" calibration.
Result is as before, with pre-amp volume control at zero and DSpeaker volume set at 0.0dB there is audible hiss as before. The level of hiss does not change when adjusting pre-amp volume with or without source connected, applies to all inputs. Hiss increases or decreases with adjustment of the Dspeaker volume control. To clarify, the hiss is noticeable when no source is playing but not discernable when listening to music, although I wonder if the underlying hiss is detrimental to SQ.
So I approached it the other way round opening the pre-amp volume contol to maximum (no music playing) whilst lowering the Dspeaker volume control until all hiss disappeared around -20dB. Music was quiet at this level and gradually turning up the Dspeaker volume took the music to maximum comfortable listening levels at say -10dB to -7dB. Seemed to work very well, SQ all there but not sure I can trust my ears!
My sources for 2 channel are LP12, ACD3, Apple AEX via CA Dacmagic, fed into Music First Audio Classic Copper TVA passive pre-amp (Dspeaker) and Avondale M130 monoblock power amps. Speakers are Castle Howard S2's and I use a BKXXLS 400mK2 sub for 2.1 and 5.1 use. All sounds very good, the Dspeaker does control some room resonances well, particulalry at higher volumes, but given the hiss I do wonder if it might in fact have otherwise deleterious effects on SQ even in "bypass" mode when dsp is turned off, the signal still has to pass through the unit. I wonder if opening up the passive pre-amp volume to max is a good thing or otherwise.
I will look into the headroom and input settings and see if that changes anything. Meanwhile any further thoughts appreciated.
Cheers
Anthony
I have not yet heard back from Tom at BK but have tried some fiddling in the meantime. I bought the unit in December 2013 and it seems it shipped with April 2013 firmware so I have updated to the "latest" June 2013 firmware (go figure!). Following the update I ran a fresh "typical" calibration.
Result is as before, with pre-amp volume control at zero and DSpeaker volume set at 0.0dB there is audible hiss as before. The level of hiss does not change when adjusting pre-amp volume with or without source connected, applies to all inputs. Hiss increases or decreases with adjustment of the Dspeaker volume control. To clarify, the hiss is noticeable when no source is playing but not discernable when listening to music, although I wonder if the underlying hiss is detrimental to SQ.
So I approached it the other way round opening the pre-amp volume contol to maximum (no music playing) whilst lowering the Dspeaker volume control until all hiss disappeared around -20dB. Music was quiet at this level and gradually turning up the Dspeaker volume took the music to maximum comfortable listening levels at say -10dB to -7dB. Seemed to work very well, SQ all there but not sure I can trust my ears!
My sources for 2 channel are LP12, ACD3, Apple AEX via CA Dacmagic, fed into Music First Audio Classic Copper TVA passive pre-amp (Dspeaker) and Avondale M130 monoblock power amps. Speakers are Castle Howard S2's and I use a BKXXLS 400mK2 sub for 2.1 and 5.1 use. All sounds very good, the Dspeaker does control some room resonances well, particulalry at higher volumes, but given the hiss I do wonder if it might in fact have otherwise deleterious effects on SQ even in "bypass" mode when dsp is turned off, the signal still has to pass through the unit. I wonder if opening up the passive pre-amp volume to max is a good thing or otherwise.
I will look into the headroom and input settings and see if that changes anything. Meanwhile any further thoughts appreciated.
Cheers
Anthony
luckyguliver
pfm Member
Hi Anthony,
How would you rate Antimode's dac and pre amp section? Is there any synergy with Avondale monos? I'm going to receive S100 in a week or two hence I'm looking for "one box solution" thing. That is to say I need dac and pre amp. DSP would be a nice bonus though
Cheers,
antinchip
pfm Member
Hi luckyguliver, sorry not to have replied previously, unfortunately in hospital following a car crash a few weeks back. Hope I might get home in the next week or so!
I have not used the DSP as standalone DAC but it gets a fair report in the reviews. I have tried briefly as a pre-amp and seemed OK. It did fall some way short of my Grad 1 and more recent MFA Copper Classic passive pre. Perhaps not surprising given price difference. I think you will probably have to try to give it a listen if you can. Good luck.
Cheers
Anthony
I have not used the DSP as standalone DAC but it gets a fair report in the reviews. I have tried briefly as a pre-amp and seemed OK. It did fall some way short of my Grad 1 and more recent MFA Copper Classic passive pre. Perhaps not surprising given price difference. I think you will probably have to try to give it a listen if you can. Good luck.
Cheers
Anthony
Rodney gold
Im just me...
It's almost not ever going to be used as a pure dac or pre , in respect of having DSP enabled , so essentially your question has to be whether it messes up or with the feqs above which it acts on. Also hard to tell as the bass correction changes your perceptions of them....
Getting rid of bass boom at your listening position is an order of magnitude better for the sound than the subtler nuances between different pres and dacs. You dont have to use its pre or dac if you want something different.
Getting rid of bass boom at your listening position is an order of magnitude better for the sound than the subtler nuances between different pres and dacs. You dont have to use its pre or dac if you want something different.
luckyguliver
pfm Member
Probably that's what was sticking out of some of the reviews found on int. but I have a question here re this. Supposing there's not much to improve in bass department in my room. In such a case I would be better off having a decent Dac and pre amp...
Thanks Anthony for feedback.
Rodney gold
Im just me...
I can assure you that there are bass problems in your room , maybe not extreme , but they will be there..all rooms have bass issues at some point in the room.
If you doubt the ability of the unit to improve your bass or in fact , just by using the equaliser , improve the sound you get , then you would be be better off with a premium dac/pre..maybe....
You can look at the cheaper RC/DSP options like the miniDSP units. I am as impressed with the openDRC Di - FIR correction and PEQ..albeit it does full range correction and is more complex to use , but its 1/2 the price.... Im actually "testing" both units back to back and cannot make up my mind which is "better"..the miniDSP is easier to use
If you doubt the ability of the unit to improve your bass or in fact , just by using the equaliser , improve the sound you get , then you would be be better off with a premium dac/pre..maybe....
You can look at the cheaper RC/DSP options like the miniDSP units. I am as impressed with the openDRC Di - FIR correction and PEQ..albeit it does full range correction and is more complex to use , but its 1/2 the price.... Im actually "testing" both units back to back and cannot make up my mind which is "better"..the miniDSP is easier to use
I just wish that the people that make the DSP AntiMode make a decent remote some day, that thing is the primary interface and it is terrible, I mean really really terrible. I may have an application for my bedroom system, but I cannot in all honesty buy one again because the remote lets the whole thing down.
0rangutan
pfm Member
That was my experience too. Irrespective of how it may sound as a pre-amp, the lack of a usable remote makes this a non-starter and so only worth considering if you are using it at line level or as a DAC and don't plan to twiddle.
The same criticism can be levelled at a lot of hifi equipment. I am not demanding solid aluminium remotes, but it would be good if vendors could try to avoid just shipping the cheapest compatible OEM remote from China.
Logitech harmony remote was my first consideration, its better but not that much better, actually most remotes are pants
But the DSPeaker remote is nasty and spoils an otherwise good, no... Gobsmackingly good product...
In the end I implemented BruteFIR on the pi/hifiberry and am exploring other convolution engines but its a lot of hassle and lacks a lot of the IO that the dspeaker has... A fine product but saying get a slightly less shit remote to replace the totally shit DSPeaker remote is not really helpful.
But the DSPeaker remote is nasty and spoils an otherwise good, no... Gobsmackingly good product...
In the end I implemented BruteFIR on the pi/hifiberry and am exploring other convolution engines but its a lot of hassle and lacks a lot of the IO that the dspeaker has... A fine product but saying get a slightly less shit remote to replace the totally shit DSPeaker remote is not really helpful.