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Drawn to a sugden

Frizzy said:
A21a sounds better with lid removed, had mine breathed on by definitive, bypassed balance control, speaker posts replaced and some kondo wire used on internals. Didn’t replace any components as did want to change musicality.
Was better for peanuts, was shocked at diff removing lid made, better heat dissipation I assume.
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Many years ago, I replaced the top cover of a Sugden A25 with a perforated sheet metal and got similar results.
 
I must admit to wanting the little Bijou Musicmaster, but the 2x16w would barely tickle my ATC SCM10s. Their other offerings the A21 and even the A48 have always had me curious, ive heard very little bad said about Sugden gear.

If I had the cash I'd probably have the new A21SE (in that blue) and a change of speakers.
 
How long do class A amps take to warm up for optimum sound quality? My listening is always unplanned and brief, so switching on in advance to warm up for an hour just ain't gonna happen :(
 
I recently demoed the IA4 masterclass integrated against my Denon PMA850. I had it in my system and preferred the Denon over a week of listening. As ever, you only really know when you listen for a period in your own room and system. Having said that, I would happily live with a Sugden amplifier and there is something appealing about a local product, serviceable still.
 
Re the volume control my understanding is you won’t get much travel with the sugdens as it has pretty high gain, similar to naim amps. You may want to consider something from exposure, the 3010S2D has a sensible gain structure and the volume control allows for small incremental changes. It is also a little richer in tone particularly in the vocals than the rega, naim alternatives which I have listened to. The phono cards available on the exposure are also excellent, same that were used in their stand-alone reference phono stage which they now no longer sell. To caveat, I haven’t listened to the sugdens but would like to, particularly the IA4 which I would consider as a replacement for my exposure in the far off future.
 
Neil P said:
How long do class A amps take to warm up for optimum sound quality? My listening is always unplanned and brief, so switching on in advance to warm up for an hour just ain't gonna happen :(
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15 mins or so will do it. The amp doesn’t sound poor upon switch on but you can tell the sound does improve when warmed up.
 
Neil P said:
How long do class A amps take to warm up for optimum sound quality? My listening is always unplanned and brief, so switching on in advance to warm up for an hour just ain't gonna happen :(
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I had the A21a followed by the Masterclass Pre/Monos combo, they both sounded superb from initially switching them on but I felt they really came on song after 10-15 mins .
 
Allaboutmusic said:
Re the volume control my understanding is you won’t get much travel with the sugdens as it has pretty high gain, similar to naim amps. You may want to consider something from exposure, the 3010S2D has a sensible gain structure and the volume control allows for small incremental changes. It is also a little richer in tone particularly in the vocals than the rega, naim alternatives which I have listened to. The phono cards available on the exposure are also excellent, same that were used in their stand-alone reference phono stage which they now no longer sell. To caveat, I haven’t listened to the sugdens but would like to, particularly the IA4 which I would consider as a replacement for my exposure in the far off future.
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re volume control, I think it may depend on your speakers. I auditioned the sugden a21 with proac's and jbl's and I got the volume dial to roughly 11 o'clock. both speakers are rated at around 88db
 
Gza said:
re volume control, I think it may depend on your speakers. I auditioned the sugden a21 with proac's and jbl's and I got the volume dial to roughly 11 o'clock. both speakers are rated at around 88db
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That’s good to know. I’m currently using harbeths which are rated at 86 so should be ok with that I would presume
 
Neil P said:
How long do class A amps take to warm up for optimum sound quality? My listening is always unplanned and brief, so switching on in advance to warm up for an hour just ain't gonna happen :(
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It takes 5 songs or 15 minutes for my vintage Naim amps to warm up and sound right.
About the same when my friend’s rock band starts to play in a bar. Cymbals start to sound sweeter (less harsh) at the 5th song.
 
Puggie said:
I must admit to wanting the little Bijou Musicmaster, but the 2x16w would barely tickle my ATC SCM10s. Their other offerings the A21 and even the A48 have always had me curious, ive heard very little bad said about Sugden gear.

If I had the cash I'd probably have the new A21SE (in that blue) and a change of speakers.
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At 82dB/W then if 16WPC is not enough neither will 25WPC or anywhere near
 
Neil P said:
How long do class A amps take to warm up for optimum sound quality? My listening is always unplanned and brief, so switching on in advance to warm up for an hour just ain't gonna happen :(
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Long enough to make a cuppa and get settled, not much more.
 
Puggie said:
I must admit to wanting the little Bijou Musicmaster, but the 2x16w would barely tickle my ATC SCM10s. Their other offerings the A21 and even the A48 have always had me curious, ive heard very little bad said about Sugden gear.
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I tried both Harbeth P3ESR and ATC SCM7 with a 14Watts class A amp.
Nice resolution in the upper registers, but both still sounded a bit as if they were waiting for the bus.
Particularly the P3ESR starts working well from about 80Watts on & you still notice a very substancial plus in control if you have 200Watts instead of 80..worthwile imo.
The SCM7 similar, but to a lesser extent.

My personal conclusion was that I'd be fine with the ATC SCM7 on 2 class A 70Watt Sugden monos,
but for the P3ESR I would rather choose a higher Watt class A/B, say ~200.
 
torstoi said:
I tried both Harbeth P3ESR and ATC SCM7 with a 14Watts class A amp.
Nice resolution in the upper registers, but both still sounded a bit as if they were waiting for the bus.
Particularly the P3ESR starts working well from about 80Watts on & you still notice a very substancial plus in control if you have 200Watts instead of 80..worthwile imo.
The SCM7 similar, but to a lesser extent.

My personal conclusion was that I'd be fine with the ATC SCM7 on 2 class A 70Watt Sugden monos,
but for the P3ESR I would rather choose a higher Watt class A/B, say ~200.
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Absolutely not! It's one of the most common misconceptions and this will likely be about the 10th time I've pointed this out.
More power means more volume potential but so long as the amp is being used within it's rating it makes no difference to control, grip, pace or anything else on those lines.

It is NOT like a powerful car being more effortless accelerating from 30 - 50mph than an 1100cc hatchback, which appears to be how 90% of people imagine it to be....
 
gavreid said:
In terms of new amps the A21 and Exposure 3510 seem to be the main choices for the money. I ran an A21 about 20 odd years ago, now I have the masterclass pre power after naim and avondale along the way. An A21 will be plenty loud in your room, even with normal speakers.

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I like his style .... but I want to know what they SOUND like (in his opinion!)
 
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