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Don't mention the war?...

Jim Audiomisc

Jim Audiomisc

pfm Member
Not quite sure what forum is the most relevant for this, but it does concern the past of a 'classic' maker, so here goes... :)

I've continued to research the history of Armstrong, and am currently working my way though the 1940s. I came across this advert in a 1947 Wireless World

http://jcgl.orpheusweb.co.uk/temp/RAF.jpeg

This - so far at least - is the *only* document I've ever found which says something about the 'munitions' work Armstrong did in WW2. (In public all they did was repair old sets or sell some passive components, etc.)

However the ad doesn't say anything about what they actually made for the RAF.

When I worked for them I was told they made 'J tubes' (or something that sounded the same like 'jay tubes'). But not what these were. Also it was referred to as 'munitions' work, but that term was common, I think at the time as no-one would give details during the war.

The fact that them made more than 12 million does make it look like a part of something 'expendable' like a bomb. But what?

So, does anyone here know much about munitions, etc, during WW2 and recognises this term? It would be useful to find some period documentation or a reference in a suitable book, etc. As it is, the item remains a mystery. I'm wondering if it was a part of the fuse / arming mechanism, but I'm just guessing.
 
Jim, have you thought of asking the M.O.D.?

Perhaps they could put you in touch with an appropriate military historian.

Googling 'munition manufacture' would probably not be the best idea. But it may get you in touch more quickly. lol
 
lazycat said:
Jim, have you thought of asking the M.O.D.?

Perhaps they could put you in touch with an appropriate military historian.

Googling 'munition manufacture' would probably not be the best idea. But it may get you in touch more quickly. lol
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I'd agree about your last comment! Too much searching for the details of how 'things that go bang' are made might give someone the wrong idea. 8-]

I know someone who may know someone wrt MOD. So that's a possible way forwards. If I can't resolve this I'll give that a try. Problem is that it may delay my being able to say much any time soon.
 
sq225917 said:
Part of the primer package on large calibre breech loaded munitions. Ie heavy artillery on ships.

https://patents.google.com/patent/US585957A/en

Called the j tube after it's part designation in the patent
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Thanks. That's certainly very interesting. The part Armstrong made was for the RAF, so I presume something to be dropped from on high. IIRC anti-aircraft fire in the UK during WW2 wasn't mainly an RAF thing. However the term 'J tube' may have become a generic for a part of something like a fuse mechanism to detonate a bomb they'd dropped. And that use of the term may have stemmed from the patent you found.
 
I’m a little confused as to how an electronics company became what looks like a metal machining company, surely that is a completely different tooling and skillset requirement? I’d have expected them to make radios, radar etc.
 
Tony L said:
I’m a little confused as to how an electronics company became what looks like a metal machining company, surely that is a completely different tooling and skillset requirement? I’d have expected them to make radios, radar etc.
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It was common during WW2. Car manufacturer's were suddenly making radar equipment etc... I've often wondered how the hell they dealt with the logistics, retraining of staff, different tooling needed etc!??:confused:

In USA a cosmetics company (can't remember which one but a household name who are still around) turned to making short wave radios!
 
I know that the McMichael factory was supposed to be making bomb trolleys. It is likely that the public production was a cover for secret stuff like radar
 
When I was at Leevers Rich in 1970 it was mentioned that the works in Wandsworth (which Leevers moved into in the sixties) had been used for making parts for torpedoes during the war - and that the building had been wired for demolition in case of an invasion - "so don`t fiddle about with any old wires you find coming out of the wall"
 
Tony L said:
I’m a little confused as to how an electronics company became what looks like a metal machining company, surely that is a completely different tooling and skillset requirement? I’d have expected them to make radios, radar etc.
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I can't tell at present, but even if the 'j tube'was being made, that might not be the entire story. They may have been making something that involved both RF electronics and mechanicanics. However if the total was over 12 million, then we're talking of the order of 10,000 items per day!

My suspicion at one time was that they make have been making components or an assembly for some kind of electronic fuse/detonator. e.g. some kind of 'proximity' fuse. However I have no evidence at all for this.

FWIW I've also asked Ted Rule about this. (Yes, still alive at 89 years old!) but it was before his time with the company and he can't recall knowing anything about it.
 
It would be really interesting, albeit completely pointless, to know what they were up to.

FWIW BSA made 42000 20mm cannon during WW2, so 12 million for components of cannon shells would be plausible. These are cannon for mounting on aircraft.
 
Looking at my own old webpages (!) I found that about 20 years ago I'd commented that the 'J tube' may have been a part of something like incendiaries. But I can't now recall being told that.
 
That's repeated in various places around the net....

I think the RAF dropped about 900 000 tonnes of bombs in WW2, so 12 million fuse components is also a plausible number, and incendiaries were presumably relatively numerous. 10 000 a day for 40 people working round the clock is about 10 an hour each, so there's quite a range of possibilities that would fit into that factory.

Somebody needs to go to the National Archives and look for the contracts. The ad is specific about 'accepted by the Ministry of Aircraft Production' so probably not a sub-contract from a supplier further up the chain.
 
The RAF museum has sent me a form reply along the lines of "we're busy... try the IWM". So I may give them a go.

*However* someone I know has just emailed me an extract from a book on things like tube (valve) prodiction and development. That describes 'j tubes' which were indeed valves designed for use in rugged military applications. I'm getting hold of a copy of the book, but this sounds like the right device! :)
 
The other secret assembly was the anti aircraft shell proximity fuse. Presumably made in incredible numbers by radio manufacturers.
 
davidsrsb said:
The other secret assembly was the anti aircraft shell proximity fuse. Presumably made in incredible numbers by radio manufacturers.
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I think they were first used to destroy doodlebugs so quite late on in the war and probably not in such massive quantities as earlier types.

A considerable engineering achievement to produce valves which would withstand the G, rather more than just fitting an anti microphonic valve base.
 
Barrymagrec said:
I think they were first used to destroy doodlebugs so quite late on in the war and probably not in such massive quantities as earlier types.

A considerable engineering achievement to produce valves which would withstand the G, rather more than just fitting an anti microphonic valve base.
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Yep it's one of those things I would have sworn had to be a hoax if I didn't know it was succesfully accomplished!
 
Two developments.

1) Someone I know via a 'Technology' email list has found a textbook that described the 'J tube' as a form of ruggedised (electronics) valve for use by the military. He has a PDF so I should now get the details he has.

2) The earlier comment about the RAF Museum was actually a response from Cosforth. Someone at the *London* RAF Museum has replied to my email. He doesn't know what a J tube was. But points out a distinction I didn't know.

The Min of Aircraft was responsible for aircraft, but *not* munitions. Munitions was the remit of the Min of Supply.

The ad does specify Aircraft. This implies the items went into the aircraft as parts of some of the kit, etc. Which, given the huge number made (over 12 million) implies quite a few per aircraft. The plot thickens... :)

The main 1940s survey is now largely completed. So all being well I hope to make the results available on the web today or (more likely) tomorrow sometime. I will add a 'P.S.' wrt to this conundrum and may in the future be able to update that if/when I can find out more. It occurs to me to email the MoC as well in case someone there knows.
 
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