advertisement


Don't let anyone tell you mains supply doesn't matter

Thanks for taking the time to reply, although I am slightly concerned (perhaps unreasonably as its been a few years since my time at uni and ive forgotten more than I remember) as to the need for such a system considering the service earth in your supply will have an impedance of .2ohms to .8ohms or less, a single earth spike of 13mm dia x 1m will generally have an impedance rating of greater than 100ohms, connect a few together as you mentioned will still give an impedance of greater than 20ohms which could raise safety issues.

No problem, I always try to be as clear as possible and answer questions asked, as otherwise it not only creates confusion, but is a disservice to constructive discussion.

Yes to to the RCD, (and I think yes) to the certificate - that is *if* that's what the sparky presented me with after completion of the installation, and *if* I could still find it! As I said, it was rather a long time ago. However, if not I'm sure I could contact the person concerned (as he's still in business) and have him issue me with such.

Also, as you say, the set-up has been in place for a number of years, and I'm still alive to tell the tale!:eek::D

Marco.
 
Last edited:
With respect, Jez, I think you can't look at this from the perspective of having little technical understanding, so where you read an explanation and think 'Yes! Nailed it, clear as a bell' I might think 'So many unanswered questions here'. It's all relative to what you already know. And when I, or others, try to unpick what we see as unanswered questions, then the shutters come down (not unlike how you've just responded here).

I think we've got to a place now where I think I might have something of a handle on the possible interaction between PSU and mains, which seems to leave open the possibility that changes in mains impedance could affect that interaction. What seems to be argued now is that the interaction has such a small effect on the output that it is inaudible. Which is where it gets circular again. We get into that 'It's so small it's inaudible / I heard something so maybe it isn't inaudible / No, its definitely inaudible' merry-go-round.

There you go again! If you think it's even possible for the mains to affect things here then there is no possibility of you ever understanding it. Personally I am 100% certain that you are trolling....
 
Don't think your electrician would've installed earth rods if you were on a PME earthing system, as far as I understand TT v PME. Although a generalisation, I'm told that rural and old(er) properties had TT (local earthing) whereas most recent builds since, e.g. around the 60s, have PME (back to the grid, as it were). Happy to be corrected on this, though.

No, Mike, I think you're probably right. We live in a 19th century property, so very little that's 'fancy new & shiny' applies, lol!

Your resume of your installation and sonic findings was interesting, though 6 x e/rods? Wow! I've only got one !:) Matter of interest, how are your hifi radials connected internally for connection to your kit?

Not only that, the rods were installed *horizontally*, to maximise contact surface area, then the whole shebang was covered in conductive concrete, in order to maintain maximum conductivity and performance of the earth.. Fortunately, I have an understanding wife and a big garden!

You could've buried a body in there, lol.. Took a while for the grass to grow back properly, too!!:D But you know me of old, in for a penny, in for a pound..;)

As for how the kit's connected, these days (after having it redone), banks of un-switched single MK sockets behind the system (one would really only need one socket, with a mains block.

However, you never know when others might come in handy. The first socket is connected to the incoming mains from the dedicated CU and powers a six-way (modified/upgraded) Mark Grant mains distribution block, sat on a shelf and supported by Nordost Pulsar Points, which my kit plugs into via mostly bespoke-made power cables.

I deduced, after much experimenting, that the system sounds better with its power cables plugged into a mains block, which is decoupled from both the wall and floor, than plugged straight into the wall using individual sockets. Of course, hardwiring would be better still, but safety would be compromised.

Marco.
 
Last edited:
There you go again! If you think it's even possible for the mains to affect things here then there is no possibility of you ever understanding it. Personally I am 100% certain that you are trolling....
OK Jez, then I will try not to worry my pretty little head about such things and shall return to my knitting.

Submitted as evidence that any heat and negativity in these discussions hasn't come from me. And on that note, I will leave you to it, and you're welcome to it. It's taken a while, but it's now gone the way these threads always go. And, as is usually the case, the aggression and snidery comes from the techy side.
 
Submitted as evidence that any heat and negativity in these discussions hasn't come from me. And on that note, I will leave you to it, and you're welcome to it. It's taken a while, but it's now gone the way these threads always go. And, as is usually the case, the aggression and snidery comes from the techy side.

I'm sorry if I've touched a nerve, but many of your posts on the subject were dismissive and barbed at best with an undertone of superiority.
 
Submitted as evidence that any heat and negativity in these discussions hasn't come from me. And on that note, I will leave you to it, and you're welcome to it. It's taken a while, but it's now gone the way these threads always go. And, as is usually the case, the aggression and snidery comes from the techy side.

But, as far as I can see, only (as usual) from one particular character who's, IMHO, unbridled arrogance and sense of superiority grossly outweighs his status as an 'expert'.

Marco.
 
Recently joined, interesting to see this forum gets the same results when a member wishes to discuss wires, mains or signal.
I’ve just ordered 20m of gigawatt in wall mains.
I’ve already got one radial fitted but have decided to use the old one which uses jps in wall for the av rig as I find the jps lacks tonal breadth(compared to five other types inc standard mains cable) huge detail esp on tv pic but sonically bit dry on stereo. Tried jps, gigawatt,Akiko,kemp, and standard in wall mains.
Will be in isolated box with gigawatt breakers. Not cheap but peanuts in context of system. Will post results
 
Submitted as evidence that any heat and negativity in these discussions hasn't come from me. And on that note, I will leave you to it, and you're welcome to it. It's taken a while, but it's now gone the way these threads always go. And, as is usually the case, the aggression and snidery comes from the techy side.

Please yerself.... From my POV I may as well have spent my time trying to explain why a square wheel is a non starter to someone who is still insisting "nah I can't see the problem with that" even when a round wheel has been presented for comparison and the concept of round things rolling seen with their own eyes... hence trolling can be the only explanation. Further evidence is that even if you don't understand it you have been told by many engineers that this is basic stuff and that it is impossible for your suppositions to occur. I can only guess that a dozen cosmologists, designers of moon rover vehicles and NASA scientists telling you the moon is NOT made of cheese would fail to disabuse you of such a notion if you thought otherwise! We DO need experts and sometimes you just have to take their advice on matters we don't understand... or we get **** wit 5G and Qanon conspiracy theorists and anti-vaxxers polluting the gene pool!
 
But, as far as I can see, only (as usual) from one particular character who's, IMHO, unbridled arrogance and sense of superiority grossly outweighs his status as an 'expert'.

Marco.

The arrogance is entirely with those who, in their dimwitted conceitedness, even after admitting zero knowledge of a specialist subject and providing more than ample evidence of their utter inability to grasp even the most basic tenets of it believe they are in a position to challenge experts who have studied the subject for decades and are professionals in the field.

Anyway, so I hear you hold and host some "interesting" views on immunology and vaccination these days... no doubt another group of experts you know better than and find "arrogant"
 
Sorry, Jez, out of respect for Tony's forum, I'm not going there. I'll leave others to decide, based on your behaviour on this thread, particularly towards Steve, who's the arrogant one here, and historically always has been.

Interesting though, that you recognised yourself from my earlier description;)

The issue, in terms of arrogance [and also intolerance], is with how you express yourself, not the points you make, and Steve (who was doing his level best to be polite) didn't deserve to be spoken to like that.

If or when you develop some people skills, you may be able to successfully impart your knowledge on others, without simply irking them to the point of non-interest.

Marco.
 
Last edited:
The only time I have come across earth wires buried in the garden was at my Grandfathers house, in South Devon. He was a radio ham all his life and the house suffered poor earth.

But for good radio transmission he needed better, so buried many yards of copper cable up and down the garden. Quite happy to SSB to New Zealand every Sunday with that in place. He never could decide which of his aerials was ‘better’ so he waited until Summer holidays when I stayed and could help him hoist his massive wooden mast up and down. Hoisting the big Quad needed a windless day.

Not sure that his Hacker ‘Hi Fi’ noticed a difference with the improved earth though! Was there an inky blackness when I played my Supertramp to him? Or did he get it with his Vera Lynn or Caruso records?

burying earth wires doesn’t just improve the earth, but improves radio reception and transmission too.
 
Never mind that, but if your hearing is so shite, then why bother owning an expensive hi-fi system?;)

You're clearly a music lover, Joe, but definitely not an audiophile.. With respect, I therefore conclude you contribute to these threads simply because you enjoy a good wind-up/argument!:D

Marco.

Not really; I find the discussions interesting, even if I can't always follow the technical stuff so well. As for hearing, it's an age thing, I'm afraid. Identifying myself as the owner of 'golden ears' would simply be laughable when I often can't even hear the doorbell ring. Indeed, that's the problem with audiophiles in general; they have older ears, but deeper pockets than the young folk, when the young folk would almost certainly be more able to hear subtle differences.
 
Recently joined, interesting to see this forum gets the same results when a member wishes to discuss wires, mains or signal.
I’ve just ordered 20m of gigawatt in wall mains.
I’ve already got one radial fitted but have decided to use the old one which uses jps in wall for the av rig as I find the jps lacks tonal breadth(compared to five other types inc standard mains cable) huge detail esp on tv pic but sonically bit dry on stereo. Tried jps, gigawatt,Akiko,kemp, and standard in wall mains.
Will be in isolated box with gigawatt breakers. Not cheap but peanuts in context of system. Will post results

I would say “your mains supply doesn’t matter” but it looks like you’ve already ventured way, way down the rabbit hole!
 
Not really; I find the discussions interesting, even if I can't always follow the technical stuff so well. As for hearing, it's an age thing, I'm afraid. Identifying myself as the owner of 'golden ears' would simply be laughable when I often can't even hear the doorbell ring. Indeed, that's the problem with audiophiles in general; they have older ears, but deeper pockets than the young folk, when the young folk would almost certainly be more able to hear subtle differences.

Fair enough, and all valid points. As an agnostic though, who openly admits to having 'shite hearing', you do seem rather keen to push the validity of blind-testing for evaluating certain aspects of audio, which given your position, shouldn't really be of much interest.

As you've stated though, successfully identifying effects under those conditions isn't really about having 'golden ears'; simply better hearing acuity, due to age, or perhaps other factors.

Marco.
 
Last edited:
Dropped down rabbit hole when purchased jps in wall 15+ years ago, and started making my own cables and building my version of seismic sinks.
Had earth checked by electricity supplier and their feed from street was better earthed than large copper rod I tried. My system is isolated but not filtered, quality wire no filters passive or active, maybe one day but not tried anything I like.
I like wonderland!
 


advertisement


Back
Top