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Donald Trump - non-American missing the point III

Paul R

Paul R

pfm Member
kasperhauser said:
Yeah, such a pity he didn't actually accomplish anything. :rolleyes:

http://theweek.com/articles/597635/extraordinarily-complicated-successes-president-obama
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You clearly didn't actually read that article. A fan is reduced to lauding partial victories. And I think Obama has to take some of the responsibility for an obstructive Congress in later years.

For me, as an outsider, Obama has been a disappointment. His promise during his first campaign, especially during the primaries, was tremendous.

The real problem is that the woman who wasn't good enough last time looks a shoo-in this time. And she cannot even sound and look like she means it. "Fighting for us", it's ridiculous.

There's room for other opinions.... But the American political system at the top level looks broken beyond all comprehension, and has done, Obama partially excepted, since LBJ, and he's compromised (IMO) by Vietnam.

Paul
 
Paul R said:
You clearly didn't actually read that article. A fan is reduced to lauding partial victories.
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You clearly didn't actually read the article, so I'll quote some relevant portions for your benefit:

There are hundreds of other decisions and accomplishments one could point to over the last seven years as being of great consequence
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Whatever you think of him, it's looking like Barack Obama did indeed change the country's trajectory, by doing pretty much what he said he would.
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Let me know if you'd like me to google up some of those hundreds of other decisions and accomplishments of great consequence for you, although I suspect it's something you may even be capable of doing yourself, were factual reality of any interest to you.

Sorry you're disappointed though. Must be tough for you, living in such an imperfect world.
 
Paul R said:
Is that an intelligent voice because you agree with it?
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I hear him on the radio on a weekly basis, and virtually always disagree with his viewpoints. It's an intelligent conservative voice simply because it comes from an intelligent conservative (visiting professor at Duke and Yale Universities, among many other credentials).

Do you ask the question because you don't agree he represents an intelligent conservative voice? If so, make your case against him.
 
kasperhauser said:
Let me know if you'd like me to google up some of those hundreds of other decisions and accomplishments of great consequence for you, although I suspect it's something you may even be capable of doing yourself, were factual reality of any interest to you.

Sorry you're disappointed though. Must be tough for you, living in such an imperfect world.
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You can make exactly the same points about GWB. And you seem, as usual, to be off-piste and flailing about in the wrong directions. Obama is a disappointment, given his first impression, but compared to the people he ran against, primary and general, he's a giant. Even if he specialises in profound banality and giant motorcades.

I don't want a perfect world, I'd just like you to get off your collective asses and elect a competent President from a field of worthy candidates.

Paul
 
Paul R said:
I don't want a perfect world, I'd just like you to get off your collective asses and elect a competent President from a field of worthy candidates.
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...says the man from the land of Thatcher, Major, Blair, Cameron...
 
kasperhauser said:
Do you ask the question because you don't agree he represents an intelligent conservative voice? If so, make your case against him.
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I think he's largely correct, but the polemic is over-wrought and counter-productive. In a sense he exemplifies what the Trump phenomenon is reacting to.

It would be great if a business-person became president from outside the political establishment, you've just got the wrong one.

Paul
 
Paul R said:
You can make exactly the same points about GWB.
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No, I couldn't, but I've seen enough of your posts here to be convinced that you could.

Paul R said:
And you seem, as usual, to be off-piste and flailing about in the wrong directions. Obama is a disappointment, given his first impression, but compared to the people he ran against, primary and general, he's a giant. Even if he specialises in profound banality and giant motorcades.
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Then please point me in a productive direction. You don't seem to be impressed by anything the man has accomplished, which leads me to wonder who you think might have accomplished more, and how, specfically. Then you throw in soundbites about motorcades and banality as if they summarize a nearly 8-year presidency that is widely characterized as consequential, by others who (no offense intended) actually seem to have been paying attention during those years.

Try something constructive – address his list of accomplishments and deconstruct them for us. Tell us all how the political scientists have it all wrong.

Paul R said:
I don't want a perfect world, I'd just like you to get off your collective asses and elect a competent President from a field of worthy candidates.
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Thankfully, we – neither individually, nor as a nation – give a damn what you'd like.
 
Paul R said:
It would be great if a business-person became president from outside the political establishment, you've just got the wrong one.
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Why would that be so great? The idea of a businessman-President has been a right wing wet dream for some time. I don't see the appeal.
 
Paul R said:
I think he's largely correct, but the polemic is over-wrought and counter-productive. In a sense he exemplifies what the Trump phenomenon is reacting to.
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Yes - intelligence. It's an evil that must be purged, and they've found the right man for the job.

Paul R said:
It would be great if a business-person became president from outside the political establishment, you've just got the wrong one.
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Great in what way? From a national security perspective? Are business-persons particularly adept at managing humanitarian crises, etc.? Are they experts in interpreting the Constitution? Tell me how you think a business-person president would make America – and perhaps even, in a small way, the world – a better place. Again, I ask you to make a case to support your soundbite.

(edit: what Yank said.)
 
Yank said:
...says the man from the land of Thatcher, Major, Blair, Cameron...
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Umm.

We've been fortunate not to have had to make a choice between two unelectable leaders, at least in recent history. Being an irrelevant backwater and not having a directly elected head of state or government also helps.

Paul
 
Yank said:
Why would that be so great? The idea of a businessman-President has been a right wing wet dream for some time. I don't see the appeal.
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A competent executive as chief executive? Taking some of the politics out of the executive branch. Seems like a plausible direction.

How is Eisenhower viewed in retrospect?

Paul
 
I'm no fan of Obama (having had huge hope for him at first) but I do believe he deserves praise for cementing the Iranian nuclear deal in the face of such rabid opposition.
 
Paul R said:
It would be great if a business-person became president from outside the political establishment, you've just got the wrong one.

Paul
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We've had that, sort of. Remember the MBA President, Uncurious George, he of the 2' attention span? It wasn't a great success.
 
Paul R said:
A competent executive as chief executive? Taking some of the politics out of the executive branch. Seems like a plausible direction.

How is Eisenhower viewed in retrospect?

Paul
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Eisenhower was a soldier, an organizer and a statesman. I don't think he did business.
 
Paul R said:
Obama is a disappointment, given his first impression, but compared to the people he ran against, primary and general, he's a giant.
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This contradicts your position that America needs a business-person as a leader, seeing as Mitt Romney was Obama's main opponent in 2012, and Romney's certainly a business-person.

Explain.
 
Paul R said:
Why? It's nothing to do with my point.
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Your "point" was that the author of the article in question was (your words) "reduced to lauding partial victories", with the implication being there were no actual victories to laud. I invited you to address any credible list of Obama's accomplishments and explain to us why you find no victories among them.

So yes, everything to do with your point. I repeat the invitation.

Paul R said:
Politics is science?
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https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Political_science

Glad to help.
 
Newly released WikiLeaks intercepted email from Hillary Clinton:

https://wikileaks.org/clinton-emails/emailid/18328#efmADMAFf

The best way to help Israel deal with Iran's growing nuclear capability is to help the people of Syria overthrow the regime of Bashar Assad.

Negotiations to limit Iran's nuclear program will not solve Israel's security dilemma. Nor will they stop Iran from improving the crucial part of any nuclear weapons program — the capability
 
Paul R said:
I found the varied views of historians at http://nymag.com/daily/intelligencer/2015/01/ interesting. (Albeit a year old...) You probably won't.
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I admit you are right - I didn't:

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