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Don Rendall Ian Carr reissues

poco a poco said:
My 'Wish List' includes the some of the early John Stevens, Spontanous Music Ensemble records from around that time as I saw them live quite a few times. I have a couple, but the later affordable reissues of the others seem to be 'needle drops'.
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I wish I could have been at some of those SME performances! I'd love to know more about them.

Can I ask which reissues are needle-drops? I know there was a Japanese reissue of Karyobin which was a needle-drop from the original vinyl (and wasn't very good), but the more recent Emanem reissue is a remastering from the original tapes. This, and Summer 1967 (which I think led to Karyobin?), are essential SME, in my view.
 
Ok I've ordered Dusk Fire and Live from Juno (along with a brutalist techno 12", just in case this Brit Jazz is a bit too smooth). Will do a comparison with the Qobuz 24 bit file at the weekend, and I'll email Qobuz to verify their source. From what it says on their website, they get the Hi-Res files directly from record companies, with no tampering to the files.
 
Tantris said:
I wish I could have been at some of those SME performances! I'd love to know more about them.

Can I ask which reissues are needle-drops? I know there was a Japanese reissue of Karyobin which was a needle-drop from the original vinyl (and wasn't very good), but the more recent Emanem reissue is a remastering from the original tapes. This, and Summer 1967 (which I think led to Karyobin?), are essential SME, in my view.
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I've heard about these needle drops, but sometimes I've been surprised. Apparently the Roku reissue of 'Topography of the Lungs' is a needle drop, but that sounds fantastic to me. I thought the recent Emanem 'Karyobin' sounded a bit flat compared to the early CD, but I must admit I've hardly listened to it. Must give it another go.

Thanks for alerting me to Summer 1967, which I've never heard! I've been following Evan Parker since the mid 90s and seen him play more times than is reasonable, but there are still lots of gaps in my knowledge; I've never been a good completist.
 
Tantris said:
I wish I could have been at some of those SME performances! I'd love to know more about them.

Can I ask which reissues are needle-drops? I know there was a Japanese reissue of Karyobin which was a needle-drop from the original vinyl (and wasn't very good), but the more recent Emanem reissue is a remastering from the original tapes. This, and Summer 1967 (which I think led to Karyobin?), are essential SME, in my view.
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Tantrism thanks. I was really looking for vinyl decent vinyl copies of Karyobin and Challenge and have completely overlooked these Enamen CD's. Are they a Spanish label? I note Andrew's comments above, but I may give these CD's a go at that price. Do you have Challenge?

Most memorable (well not very it's a long time ago) venue for SME was Bedford College by Regents Park, now consumed by UCL and the building is now Regents University, London apparently. The Students Union had a Jazz Club, a bar and a small lounge (part of a passage way really), but it was ideal for small British Jazz groups and great for the audience as you were up close. I think performances were about once a month. I saw some good performances there.

Edited to clarify present status of Bedford College.
 
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Graham H said:
Just listened to side one of Duskfire again. I stand by my original comment, it’s good but a bit lacklustre. Dave Green’s bass sounds a bit stunted, and I’m hearing complete pre echo phrases of print through on Ian Carr’s trumpet in the left channel on Spooks in the first few minutes...
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I've had a listen to the Qobuz MP3 on headphones and I'm not hearing any pre-echo on this track. What I am hearing is bleed from Rendell's instrument into the left channel, especially noticeable when Carr isn't playing (I'm assuming this was recorded live). I wonder if that's what you're interpreting as pre-echo?
 
Elephantears said:
That 'almost' has let me off the hook. Phew, a narrow escape.
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Well the 'almost' was an afterthought. Perhaps I should remove it. ;) If there are no further reissues after this set of stampers are worn out, it could be an investment? Look at the price of an original.
 
Stunsworth said:
I've had a listen to the Qobuz MP3 on headphones and I'm not hearing any pre-echo on this track. What I am hearing is bleed from Rendell's instrument into the left channel, especially noticeable when Carr isn't playing (I'm assuming this was recorded live). I wonder if that's what you're interpreting as pre-echo?
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Stunsworth I agree with Graham that it is mainly pre-echo and post-echo (print through) although there is some bleed as well. If you listen closely you can hear the phrases or part of phrases repeated. I think it's fairly clear as a repeat in the lower volume gaps with Carr's stabbing phrases on Spooks, even with a lot going on. Or listen to the very start of Hot Rod where you hear it before the music really kicks in. Mind you as I have said it wasn't bothering me - until now.:(
 
Theo said:
My Landsdowne 'wish list' includes the two Mike Taylor albums, "Pendulum" & "Trio". The recent CD pressings are excellent, but I'd love these on vinyl too.
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I think I might like these especially as they have Jon Hiseman on drums who I did see live a few times. The only thing I know about him is that he is credited together with Ginger Baker for some of the compositions for Cream's of Wheels on Fire that I seem to have more than one original copy of (did I buy it twice all those years ago?). Even the reissue CD's are expensive now though and Pendulum was apparently one of the most expensive items sold on Discogs one time.
 
I was 'lucky' with "Pendulum" and bought it recently for £50 - making it easily my most expensive CD. My "Trio" was purchased for £20. To me, both are worth it - and compare quite well to the one track I have on original vinyl (on the "Jazz Explosion" compilation). As each original album fetches up to £2k, these are ripe for re-issue, unless Universal have 'lost' the tapes in the US fire...
 
Stunsworth said:
I've had a listen to the Qobuz MP3 on headphones and I'm not hearing any pre-echo on this track. What I am hearing is bleed from Rendell's instrument into the left channel, especially noticeable when Carr isn't playing (I'm assuming this was recorded live). I wonder if that's what you're interpreting as pre-echo?
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I can hear the bleed through you are referring to, but I’m also hearing quite a bit of pre-echo - as described below:

poco a poco said:
Stunsworth I agree with Graham that it is mainly pre-echo and post-echo (print through) although there is some bleed as well. If you listen closely you can hear the phrases or part of phrases repeated. I think it's fairly clear as a repeat in the lower volume gaps with Carr's stabbing phrases on Spooks, even with a lot going on. Or listen to the very start of Hot Rod where you hear it before the music really kicks in. Mind you as I have said it wasn't bothering me - until now.:(
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Theo said:
I was 'lucky' with "Pendulum" and bought it recently for £50 - making it easily my most expensive CD. My "Trio" was purchased for £20. To me, both are worth it - and compare quite well to the one track I have on original vinyl (on the "Jazz Explosion" compilation). As each original album fetches up to £2k, these are ripe for re-issue, unless Universal have 'lost' the tapes in the US fire...
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I don't know if you have seen it but I just found this lengthy article by Duncan Henning on his bizarre life and tragic end on allaboutjazz.com that contains some interesting anecdotes on the early British Modern Jazz scene.
https://www.allaboutjazz.com/the-no...e-taylor-by-duncan-heining.php?pg=1&width=768
 
Elephantears said:
I've heard about these needle drops, but sometimes I've been surprised. Apparently the Roku reissue of 'Topography of the Lungs' is a needle drop, but that sounds fantastic to me. I thought the recent Emanem 'Karyobin' sounded a bit flat compared to the early CD, but I must admit I've hardly listened to it. Must give it another go.

Thanks for alerting me to Summer 1967, which I've never heard! I've been following Evan Parker since the mid 90s and seen him play more times than is reasonable, but there are still lots of gaps in my knowledge; I've never been a good completist.
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About 12 years ago I had a conversation with Evan about the Psi CD reissue of Topography of the Lungs and the fabled Japanese Incus LP it is allegedly transferred from. I don’t want to say any more on the issue for good reason, but my own very personal belief is that the Psi Topography reissue is transferred from tape.
 
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Graham H said:
I can hear the bleed through you are referring to, but I’m also hearing quite a bit of pre-echo - as described below:
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I now conclude that this record is a total waste of money. I will do anyone a favour by taking an original 1966 pressing off their hands for a tenner! ;)
 
poco a poco said:
Kevin, you know you need them all! ;) Plus Live at the Union 1966 and Amanico d' Silva - Integration, another reissued great Landsdowne that they play on. It's easy to spend someone else's money. :)
OK just two to give a spread, Dusk Fire and Live, but if you can find a copy of Live at the Union at a good price replace Live with that, but it is not as well recorded. See back in thread.
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I know I want them all, just not 100% sure I need them. I'm trying ( but failing) to be closer to the zen end of the spectrum that the completist end.

That said, I have put a alert request in for Integration which I think might be essential.

The site is pretty good at spending my money for me!

Kevin
 
Graham H said:
About 12 years ago I had a conversation with Evan about the Psi CD reissue of Topography of the Lungs and the fabled Japanese Incus LP it is allegedly transferred from. I don’t want to say any more on the issue for good reason, but my own very personal belief is that Topography reissue is transferred from tape.
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Hmm, tricky one this, since I also had a conversation with Evan about these matters (probably about 3 years ago), but wouldn't want anything I say to be mistakenly attributed to him.

By the way, I was referring to OtoRoku LP reissue of Topography.
 
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