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Does your TT meow?

a.palfreyman said:
@AlexN, could be your belt is to tight.
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Hmmm, I possibly have put on a few pounds as I’ve not been cycling as much this year.

In case you mean my Planar 3... thanks, but it was a long time ago. Thinking about it, I only really knew the sound of my parents’ and brother’s Technics DDs at the time, so stayed with that after a week with the Rega. I love my Brio-R though.

As I suggested, I’ve since heard the same glaringly wrong sound from other belt-drives. A recent one that sticks in my mind from a record many will know... the slow solo piano at the start of Agnes Obel’s Aventine, sounding not right on a lovely LP12 / Aro.

CJ14 said:
...I dig it out and post it up if that helps???
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Thanks for taking the time to help me out, that’s very kind, but see above.

Never say never though... I’d like to hear a Planar 8, as I love the design.
 
I would suggest that the OP listens to an LP which exhibits the problem using headphones to make sure that room reflections are not the cause.
 
Darren L said:
Would a Rega Neo TT psu with it's adjustable speed help with this issue?
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w00fer said:
In my experience it definitely does
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IIANM, despite the current Planar 2 having the 24V motor, it features a simplified low vibration circuit which does not accept the Neo PSU. IOW, one would need install the 24V Motor Upgrade Kit in order to have the correct version of Rega's low vibration circuit that accepts Neo.

From Rega's Neo PSU page:
"The Neo PSU is compatible with the following Rega turntable models:
P3-24 / RP3 / Planar 3 2016 / RP6 / P5 / P7 / RP40 special edition / RP8 Or any older Rega turntable fitted with our aftermarket 24v Motor Upgrade Kit."​
 
Craig B said:
IIANM, despite the current Planar 2 having the 24V motor, it features a simplified low vibration circuit which does not accept the Neo PSU. IOW, one would need install the 24V Motor Upgrade Kit in order to have the correct version of Rega's low vibration circuit that accepts Neo.

From Rega's Neo PSU page:
"The Neo PSU is compatible with the following Rega turntable models:
P3-24 / RP3 / Planar 3 2016 / RP6 / P5 / P7 / RP40 special edition / RP8 Or any older Rega turntable fitted with our aftermarket 24v Motor Upgrade Kit."​
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Yes I should have added that this was with a 20 year old P3, to which I'd previously carried out the motor upgrade.
 
My P3 is a 240V motor model and short term very stable. Mains frequency cannot fluctuate quickly, power station generators are massive.
Anything short term has to be a bearing, pulley or the belt
 
davidsrsb said:
My P3 is a 240V motor model and short term very stable. Mains frequency cannot fluctuate quickly, power station generators are massive.
Anything short term has to be a bearing, pulley or the belt
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And, should it be old enough, motor suspension.
 
Motor suspension matters more with suspended decks, when the whole thing starts wobbling like a jelly. Regas with bad motor suspension will have noise, not wow
 
CJ14 said:
The thing to check is the mains frequency , is the motor a synchronous type.
I run my synchronous TT on a amp and transformer with a pression signal generator, ok you don't have to go that far, I just happened to have the kit about. But a Xtal digital divide network and a nice simple square to sinwave converter and simple power amp into a transformer would help.
If you are into DIY I have one I did for a company many year ago, Tom Fletcher of NLE. I dig it out and post it up if that helps???
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Hi,

thanks for the suggestion. I am into DIY a little, but not into so detailed mains issues; I'll study the matter a little to understand it better then will come back, thanks.
Max
 
Drag changes significantly during playback. People often deny this, but I have seen a video of an experiment in which the arm was sitting on a floating platform tethered by a pendulum. The arm moved backwards and forwards during music in concert with the ebb and flow of signal strength. Consequently an elastic belt is going to store motor energy to varying degrees.

The effect you mention is the reason I stopped upgrading my Sondek ten years ago and switched most of my listening to a Technics DD.

However, I do own a belt drive deck which seems to be able to maintain pitch: Well Tempered Amadeus. It has an oversize platter and a fairly inelastic belt which goes round the outside so that its small but adequate motor can deliver the required torque with minimal energy storage in the intermediate device (belt). On Well Tempered decks, pianos do not sound as though they are being tuned during the performance.

When auditioning decks it is easier to listen for sound and make scant assessment of whether a deck is accurately tuneful. Although it is difficult to assess this characteristic of a turntable, I think it is the most important key to longterm musical satisfaction.

I have one deck with a sub-platter driven by a rubber band. To my ear it does not compete with my WTA or my idlers and direct drive decks in this regard.
 
Since Alex N's experience seems to be the most similar to mine, I think that I won't spend time and money to upgrade my 'entry level' turntable but will keep it, and my particular hearing, until I find something that's not too expensive and works fine. After all, there are €200 TTs and there are €15,000 ones; a little more than the cost of a P2 can be invested in good music.

I have changed the Carbon cartridge, though - as a sideways note. I installed a Goldring E3 and it is a very worthwhile upgrade as far as rotation is not involved.
Thanks,
Max
 
Maxbertola said:
...will keep it, and my particular hearing, until I find something that's not too expensive and works fine. After all, there are €200 TTs and there are €15,000 ones...
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Pick up a used Technics 1200 for a few hundred quid. You will hear pitch-perfect pianos and sustained notes. If you decide to resell it one day, you will probably make a profit.
 
sonddek said:
Drag changes significantly during playback. People often deny this, but I have seen a video of an experiment in which the arm was sitting on a floating platform tethered by a pendulum. The arm moved backwards and forwards during music in concert with the ebb and flow of signal strength. Consequently an elastic belt is going to store motor energy to varying degrees.

The effect you mention is the reason I stopped upgrading my Sondek ten years ago and switched most of my listening to a Technics DD.

However, I do own a belt drive deck which seems to be able to maintain pitch: Well Tempered Amadeus. It has an oversize platter and a fairly inelastic belt which goes round the outside so that its small but adequate motor can deliver the required torque with minimal energy storage in the intermediate device (belt). On Well Tempered decks, pianos do not sound as though they are being tuned during the performance.

When auditioning decks it is easier to listen for sound and make scant assessment of whether a deck is accurately tuneful. Although it is difficult to assess this characteristic of a turntable, I think it is the most important key to longterm musical satisfaction.

I have one deck with a sub-platter driven by a rubber band. To my ear it does not compete with my WTA or my idlers and direct drive decks in this regard.
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Thanks, this is comforting. I have an old Dual 701 that I am not using because it has other issues; yet, I don't remember any 'tuning' problems with it, although its stroboscope did show minor variations from accurate speed. I acknowledge that others have experienced the same problem as I am having, and that is enough. If I plan to continue enjoying LP replay, I'll have to move to a good DD. I'll check what can be done to mains, anyway.
 
I struggled to find this again because I have no Russian, but here is a pretty clear demonstration that stylus drag varies measurably according to programme/signal. This has implications for springy drive trains.

 
That is very interesting. I’ve felt the same for many years now and I’m convinced it impacts floating subchassis decks to some degree (if the motor and subchassis are separated) as well as decks with inadequate torque. It has always been obvious drag has been an issue, e.g. time the spin-down of any turntable without drive connected (e.g. an idler or direct drive) both with the arm cued and playing. I did this many, many years ago and there is a very big difference. It didn’t take much of a logical jump to conclude the forces vary with groove modulation, but the video above proves it beyond doubt.
 
Tony L said:
That is very interesting. I’ve felt the same for many years now and I’m convinced it impacts floating subchassis decks to some degree (if the motor and subchassis are separated) as well as decks with inadequate torque. It has always been obvious drag has been an issue, e.g. time the spin-down of any turntable without drive connected (e.g. an idler or direct drive) both with the arm cued and playing. I did this many, many years ago and there is a very big difference. It didn’t take much of a logical jump to conclude the forces vary with groove modulation, but the video above proves it beyond doubt.
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Tony,
I'm glad I started an interesting debate, I think that people with high sensitivity to pitch - which may be not the same thing as perfect pitch - are more numerous than is commonly thought. We are trained to judge audio gear by basically a mix of frequency response and phase relationships, but in the case of turntables rotation of the platter is the very thing that creates sound, so perfect rotation is essential to perfect tune. I add that my experience with the Naim Solstice has been interesting also because music's flow and tune were apparently perfect - the Solstice has magnetic suspension and a hugely heavy platter. I am somehow glad to read that others have suffered from this imperfect pitch issue with some TTs.

M.
 
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