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Does anyone in the North of England or Wales have a Denafrips Terminator I can listen to please?

It was more the negativity towards repair in Italy, and the COMPLETELY unconnected pic re false components, along with previous posts on other threads that prompted my post.

Maybe if you had been at the brunt end of this sort of thing for the last 35 years, as I have, you might think differently! I'm often the backstop for customers trying to get their equipment fixed when it goes wrong and I have seen the warning signs all too often. Only the other day I was contacted by a small UK agent almost begging me to fix half a dozen tube amps that had been brought in from Serbia as he could not get any support from the manufacturer and owed clients money if he couldn't get these amps repaired. This is never reported in the press or in glossy reviews but it often happens and one of the reasons why this industry is struggling so badly...

I am not going to derail this thread any longer so this will be my last post on the matter.
 
Where do you think all the semiconductors, resistors, silicon components, solder, etc etc were manufactured that makes these ‘UK supported’ products?

Even stating ‘made in England’ is factually incorrect if you consider the above sentence, assembled in .... would be a better term.

Where they're manufactured is of no issue to me at all. It's where they're supported from that matters. If I can't access support or repair facilities on any meaningful basis that it's quite risky for more expensive components.
 
Just read this thread - bleating and chaff aside - some really good points made. Got a bit stabby along the way though.
Picking up on the "service centre in Italy"; it might be 50 shades of hopeless, but to give context, not that long ago when my very expensive Swiss amps failed - the UK dealer gave zero service and shoved me to the UK importer (no offer of shipping, loan product) and then the importer was about as dynamic as a slug. The fact they failed when were supposed to be built like Swiss watches was bad enough, but the UK side really made it 10 times worse.

I wouldn't buy this product (remember the thread point!), but if the OP does, I hope he is very happy with it. He certainly knows the pitfalls!
 
I am not going to derail this thread any longer so this will be my last post on the matter.

That’s Rich! Your very reason for posting was to derail it!!

Face it Graham, you’re way out of line. You’ve made an unfounded negative comment about a product you don’t know and you’ve posted unrelated images to back up this ‘view’ and to scaremonger.

You’d be furious if another manufacturer commented on your product in such a manner and rightly so.

Poor show, you should be ashamed.
 
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That’s Rich! Your very reason for posting was to derail it!!

Not at all! Just to point out the potential pitfalls as mentioned all the way through this thread. I am not the only one to raise these, others have expressed similar views also...
 
I suppose you pays the (relatively low) price and take your chances. Personally if the product doesn’t have UK support I wouldn’t touch it but I guess I’m a conservative type. I wouldn’t buy anything without hearing it at home beforehand despite the extra cost that Avenue might incur.
 
Audiojoy explained that the Terminator is superbly adapted to reproducing the sound of handheld cowbells in a way that is totally ‘in the room’ and makes loudspeakers disappear - literally!

While I wonder what kind of product this thread is about, I assume the cow is called Arnold
Not handheld bells though
2BA2D93200000578-3209513-image-a-5_1440455612281.jpg
 
The UK importers, Willow Tree Audio, are exhibiting at the North West Audio Show at Cranage at the end of June. It might be worth checking to see if they’re bringing a Terminator with them.
In case anyone's interested, I just checked with Iain of Willow Tree Audio and he will in fact be demonstrating a Denafrips Terminator at the North West Audio Show at Cranage (Carnage!) Hall on the last weekend of June, so I'll hear it then (under show conditions).
http://audioshow.co.uk/

This demo Terminator will have a new DSP board in it that apparently does the following:

Technical Highlights
  • Improved Digital Signal Processing FPGA
  • Four(4) sets of Linear Technology LDO Voltage Regulators
  • DSD1024, PCM1536 Supports On USB & I²S Input
  • Proprietary USB Audio Solution via STM32F446 Advanced AMR Based MCU
  • Licensed Thesycon USB Driver For Windows Platform
  • Driver-less On Mac & Linux
  • Dual AES/EBU Input Supports
    • To enable Dual AES/EBU, press "Input+" button while in Mute state
  • Sharp/Slow Filters Option
    • To select filters, press "Mode" button
  • I²S Pinout Configuration
    • To configure I²S Pinout, press "Phase" button while in Mute state
  • I²S DSD Channel Swap Configuration
    • To swap L/R channel for DSD playback, press "NOS" button while in Mute state. Note that this DSD channel swap will not affect PCM playback.
Supported Formats

DSD
DSD64-DoP On All Input
DSD1024 On USB & I²S Input

PCM
24bits / 44.1, 48, 88.2, 96, 176.4, 192KHz On All Input
24bits /1536kHz On USB & I²S Input

Sampling Mode: Non-Oversampling NOS / Oversampling OS

The new DSP board supports DSD1024, PCM1536 ultra-high-res formats.
 
The Terminator will be doing its stuff in Bedroom 6 of Cranage Hall this weekend - sounds sexy!

Here are some quotes from the bloke who invented and built it:

Mr. Zhao on Denafrips. "I guess it was in my DNA. My father and uncle were electronically trained. I was born into a family with electronic components where transformers filled all the places in our house. Their presence nurtured me from early childhood. I liked playing with electronics that could reproduce sounds like radios, tuners, Walkmen and such. I lost count of the number of devices I ruined when I was young. Later I acquired my Bachelor in Electronics at the university. After graduation, I worked for one of the largest audio OEM in China. For 15 years, my role was always product design so I accumulated some valuable design and development experience."

On discrete R2R: "R2R DACs aren't novel technology but the very first D/A conversion approach. Strictly speaking, using discrete R2R is no technological innovation but regression. It's the D/A integrated chip which is the embodiment of technological progress. From an audio perspective, it's simply not true that technical advances must automatically produce better sound. Sound is a simple yet complex matter. Sound is simple because it uses the most basic electronic knowledge. It is complicated because it also involves endless knowledge from outside the field of electronics where electronics suddenly become the most basic requirement. A good designer must also understand music cultivation, the recording processing, replay in a room dealing with specific acoustics and more. Good sound is about all of these intangibles. To reproduce high-quality music is not an easy task. To design good equipment, you must first know whether the sound is right or wrong; and then why it so. Playback must get as close to the recording as possible. So the designer must be able to recognize sonic differences and their poor aspects and possess the technical know-how to overcome them by electronic means.
"In effect, any converter IC that's been designed by a semiconductor firm is a black box. Its ultimate performance is already written to its hardware. In most cases, semiconductor engineers are not specialized audio engineers who understand music playback intimately. They won't perfectly solve certain sonic problems while they design their chips. Once professional audio designers work with them, they cannot overwrite their built-in parameters. Many of their own design ideas can't be exploited fully. They must always design around the limitations of their chosen silicon. This is precisely why we opted to revisit the most fundamental and early approach of the discrete resistor array. With it, we enjoy perfect freedom to design our very best solutions outside the usual constraints and boundaries which are imposed by the integrated converter chips.

"Just so, we cannot claim that a discrete R2R DAC is more advanced than one using ICs. In fact, discrete R2R is retro tech. Whether good or bad depends entirely on the designer's ability. If a designer cannot maximize and get the best from an integrated chip, there is no point to design a discrete R2R DAC; or vice versa. One must never presume that the discrete R2R approach is more advanced. It's simply an unconstrained platform from which a designer can fully implement his own ideas."

On DSD: "DSD or direct bit stream is a pulse-density modulation format. It can be decoded with an analog low-pass filter to remove out-of-band HF noise. That's the DSD hardware solution. It shares similarities with the core principle of digital amplifiers. It's simply that the analog filter won't ever be as steep as a digital filter slope so out-of-band noise is never completely filtered out. Thus properly done, the hardware approach to DSD conversion is far from simple. What we apply is a technique called FIR filter-core circuit. The famous DSD1700 chip used eight levels of FIR filtering. We use 32. In that sense we are more advanced than that chip was. But whether conversion to PCM or via simulated FIR filter, neither approach to DSD guarantees good results. Hardware decoding isn't innately superior to software conversion. Again it boils down to a designer's skill sets and his in-depth appreciation of the pros and cons of either method."

On multi-paralleled capacitors. "The principle of an electrolytic capacitor is based on two metal plates with an in-between dielectric which creates a relatively large inductive value. The consequence of high inductance is non-ideal filtering of the AC power with very low and high-frequency ripple. By using arrays of many small caps in parallel to replace the large electrolytic capacitor, we avoid these drawbacks. Greatly reduced inductance improves the power supply's ripple suppression and quietness."
 
Steve Guttenburg (on YouTube)was wetting his knickers about the baby Denafrips dac last week. So much so that he almost tempted me into buying blind.
 
Have been at Cranage today and heard some serious rooms but the standout one was Willow Tree audio playing the Jays audio CDT3 transport into a Denafrips Terminator Dac.
Played a few of my reference CD’s and was very impressed with sound quality. Possibly best in show.
R
 
Have been at Cranage today and heard some serious rooms but the standout one was Willow Tree audio playing the Jays audio CDT3 transport into a Denafrips Terminator Dac.
Played a few of my reference CD’s and was very impressed with sound quality. Possibly best in show.
R

Interesting, as I’ve never (previously) been a great fan of Horning speakers.
 
Maybe if you had been at the brunt end of this sort of thing for the last 35 years, as I have, you might think differently! I'm often the backstop for customers trying to get their equipment fixed when it goes wrong and I have seen the warning signs all too often. Only the other day I was contacted by a small UK agent almost begging me to fix half a dozen tube amps that had been brought in from Serbia as he could not get any support from the manufacturer and owed clients money if he couldn't get these amps repaired. This is never reported in the press or in glossy reviews but it often happens and one of the reasons why this industry is struggling so badly...

I am not going to derail this thread any longer so this will be my last post on the matter.

Ah I'm afraid you're making the same beginners mistake I made here Graham... anyhow I think I've got to grips with the basics of it all now and it basically goes like this: The longer you've been a pro in the hi fi industry, the more amplifiers you've designed, the more tricks of the trade you've learnt and the more experience of what can and does go wrong you've gained over the years the less of a position you're in to give advice on erm... well, hi fi to people who've been on a forum for at least a month and now of course know everything there is to know... I think that's how it goes anyway:D
 


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