Jonathan Ribee
Unavailable at present
Robert (above) has some definite ideas about the OT new ones vs refurb of your old ones for both bass and treble panels - and he's recently gone through it. I'm sure he'll be back in the morning.
Do Quad ESL57 still stand up against modern speakers?
- Thread starter Simonms
- Start date
Robert (above) has some definite ideas about the OT new ones vs refurb of your old ones for both bass and treble panels - and he's recently gone through it. I'm sure he'll be back in the morning.
dave charlton
pfm member
Thanks for the link, interesting pics. Would love to listen to Tutu on that system!
dave
Yank
Bulbous Also Tapered
Keep in mind that the DC resistance at the input jacks on the ESLs is well under an ohm, the impedance of the speaker is almost completely reactive. The amp will need to be able to tolerate a near-short at turn-on. Transformer-coupled tubes are much happier with this.
I think that Quad electrostatics are one of the worlds truly great speaker series. ESL57's are very affordable. However they do have certain running costs to keep them sounding at their best, in that they benefit from a refurb every 15 years or so.
When it comes to sound quality there's no speaker that's the best in every area. It's all down to what compromises you're happiest with.
Assuming we want to keep the budget to £500 to £1500:
For best midrange go for Quad ESL's. Stacked would be good.
For best bass go for a big sealed box such as Bozak Concert Grands or Symphonys.
For best dynamics go for horns such as Altec 19's, JBL 4435's, EV Sentry III's, Klipschorns.
And as for modern speakers: at least 96% of them prioritise WAF and looks over outright sound quality.
When it comes to sound quality there's no speaker that's the best in every area. It's all down to what compromises you're happiest with.
Assuming we want to keep the budget to £500 to £1500:
For best midrange go for Quad ESL's. Stacked would be good.
For best bass go for a big sealed box such as Bozak Concert Grands or Symphonys.
For best dynamics go for horns such as Altec 19's, JBL 4435's, EV Sentry III's, Klipschorns.
And as for modern speakers: at least 96% of them prioritise WAF and looks over outright sound quality.
Cheers All,
Audiojoy-never heard Yamaha NS1000m but I think speaker designers have a very hard job (Impossible)? There is always a compromise. I settled with Shahinian as they do a lot that I like, the way they present music, the way they look, size suits where I live and for a relitavely small speaker they throw alot of bass out etc. But in saying that I was amazed at the ESL 57's for the money... a totally different speaker of course but detail in mid was something that was not there on any other speakers that I have heard.
Yank-I will be choosing tubes with the speakers but will audition when I have finished the build. Not familiar with tubes but some in the system pick thread look rather nice...could be a long process in itself...budget £2k.Futtermann have been mentioned as a successful partnership and am keen to hear the 509's again.
Lindsay yes agree entirely-dependent on many things, space, source,room size etc but I have noticed a lot that ergonomics seem important on peoples lists which I have experienced with the WTA...but it does sound nice so it stays.
Some hate the look of Obelisks but I really like them and loved DVs post a while ago that they have castors, "which is perfect as SWMBO likes to dust behind".
Ultimately I guess the choosing begins with the music you listen too.
Cheers Si
Audiojoy-never heard Yamaha NS1000m but I think speaker designers have a very hard job (Impossible)? There is always a compromise. I settled with Shahinian as they do a lot that I like, the way they present music, the way they look, size suits where I live and for a relitavely small speaker they throw alot of bass out etc. But in saying that I was amazed at the ESL 57's for the money... a totally different speaker of course but detail in mid was something that was not there on any other speakers that I have heard.
Yank-I will be choosing tubes with the speakers but will audition when I have finished the build. Not familiar with tubes but some in the system pick thread look rather nice...could be a long process in itself...budget £2k.Futtermann have been mentioned as a successful partnership and am keen to hear the 509's again.
Lindsay yes agree entirely-dependent on many things, space, source,room size etc but I have noticed a lot that ergonomics seem important on peoples lists which I have experienced with the WTA...but it does sound nice so it stays.
Some hate the look of Obelisks but I really like them and loved DVs post a while ago that they have castors, "which is perfect as SWMBO likes to dust behind".
Ultimately I guess the choosing begins with the music you listen too.
Cheers Si
I take the point about things like the NS-1000m, I'd like to try them but don't have enough power to drive them.
But what I've never heard anything other than electrostatics manage is that absolute pinpoint detail that comes from practically instantaneous transient response. It gives a life to things I can't do without now, the textures are so, so detailed, so convincing....
On the other hand there is something to be said for power. The alternative best system I ever heard was SACD through big Tannoys driven by 4 very powerful SS amplifiers. That could pin you to your chair and give you palpitations in a way that the Quads can never compete with. But the delicate beauty of the midrange wasn't there. Horses for courses....
But what I've never heard anything other than electrostatics manage is that absolute pinpoint detail that comes from practically instantaneous transient response. It gives a life to things I can't do without now, the textures are so, so detailed, so convincing....
On the other hand there is something to be said for power. The alternative best system I ever heard was SACD through big Tannoys driven by 4 very powerful SS amplifiers. That could pin you to your chair and give you palpitations in a way that the Quads can never compete with. But the delicate beauty of the midrange wasn't there. Horses for courses....
Absolutely-I think the white gilles and dark wood work really nicely and look stunning so am looking into ways of refurbing them in a different colour-whilst not wanting to spend a fortune. As shown on RHDC's thread the gold grilles seem to differ in colour in respect of when they were made so it would be nice to have a uniform colour and as far as can be achieved.
Is there such a thing with ESL 57's that mirrors Isobariks with regards to the quality of speaker and the date they were built or are they fairly standard over the years produced?
Si
The grilles are anodised, you can have them reanodised any colour you like. Also, you can buy the grille material off the roll by the metre, I've heard, then have it anodised any colour you like and fit it to the speaker for perfect dent-free smoothness. I would so love to have matching grilles without any dents in, but with a five-year old who likes to do improvised dancing it'll have to wait. The new white ones made in Germany are really beautiful, I love your idea of white with dark wood frames....
One day I will rebuild my stacks properly, this was really just a proof-of-concept test to see what they sounded like and as such done in the simplest way possible. Ideally you want to be able to tilt them, and therefore need a pivot in the centre and also therefore need to mount them foot to foot.
Re sound, I understand there is a gradual alteration over a year or two and then they remain the same if undamaged. My 1967 and 1975 pairs are quite indistinguishable. i don't think there was any change in construction apart from the replacement of epoxy with beeswax in the HT box.
Until I get the first set in I can only consider designs off the top of my head but was thinking about a frame within a frame design. The inner frames (one around each speaker) would be connected via a strong artists easel type tap enabling each speaker panel to be tilted and the tightened into its position at whatever angle suits. Also this would mean that there would be no visable fixings on the outside frame. I have access to a workshop so am imagining perfect mitre joints around the inner frames etc.
I'll think on...
I'll think on...
Quote-ESL's when working properly are capable of stunning bass performence down to about 40hz or so depending on spl.
Doesn't sound too bad surely.
But in fact response falls off like a stone below 50 Hz, though there's a bit of a boost just at and above 50Hz - so there's certainly some bass at 40Hz, it's true... easier than describing it is to look at the frequency response curve which I'll put on my blog now:
http://stewartaxton.wordpress.com/2010/12/05/more-news-very-soon/
Yank
Bulbous Also Tapered
There was only one major change during the production run, in the late 1960s after the introduction of the Quad 33/303, the crossover in the ESL was changed to block more LF from the treble panels so that power handling would be improved somewhat. It's an easy change to retrofit.
Minor changes were the switch from Bulgin to IEC AC connectors sometime in the 1970s, a different voltage selector, and a different neon indicator lamp.
None of this is as important as condition of the panels and rectifiers.
Nik
pfm Member
This has been a fascinating thread as I remember hearing the Quads for the first time in 1974/5 and being amazed by how well they did certain things, but I'm also puzzled. How did you jump from Shahinians to Quads? What do they have in common?
As for stacking, I seem to remember that the recommended setup is to have the tops together, slightly angled towards one another.
As for stacking, I seem to remember that the recommended setup is to have the tops together, slightly angled towards one another.
post 1975, I know that much
Hi Nik,
I have Shahinian speakers but the Quads are for my Sister who is paying and I will be doing the building. She liked the Shahinian's but wanted something bigger with an obviously different but equally impressive sound and after hearing some esl 57's yesterday with her we as you did in 74 came away very impressed-Shahinian's (Obs up) are rather more expensive and I think the Quads will suit her listening tastes more.
Just e mailed a few anodising companies to get an idea of cost on grille re furb-have read that some re-paint with car spray but don't like the idea of that. Most say they can do any colour. May not be poss if its too much £££ so fingers crossed.
Also on reading on Stacked Quads the DQ-10 keeps cropping up as another speaker that benefited from stacking-anyone heard them?
Cheers Si
I sold my Briks and got little tannoy dc's which remain but the esl's are the serious speaker
No they do not compare in any useful way to Briks in the bass and power and imaging ... especially the bass and power ....... or imaging and subtlety ..... however I liked the briks .... it was their lack of imaging that turned me off them eventually and the inability of the women in my life to move them if anything removed me from this mortal coil
No they do not compare in any useful way to Briks in the bass and power and imaging ... especially the bass and power ....... or imaging and subtlety ..... however I liked the briks .... it was their lack of imaging that turned me off them eventually and the inability of the women in my life to move them if anything removed me from this mortal coil
Nik
pfm Member
Thanks. I realised that the Quads are for your sister but I still find it quite a jump from Obelisks. It would be hard to imagine 2 speakers further apart in design.Hi Nik,
I have Shahinian speakers but the Quads are for my Sister who is paying and I will be doing the building. She liked the Shahinian's but wanted something bigger with an obviously different but equally impressive sound and after hearing some esl 57's yesterday with her we as you did in 74 came away very impressed-Shahinian's (Obs up) are rather more expensive and I think the Quads will suit her listening tastes more.
Just e mailed a few anodising companies to get an idea of cost on grille re furb-have read that some re-paint with car spray but don't like the idea of that. Most say they can do any colour. May not be poss if its too much £££ so fingers crossed.
Also on reading on Stacked Quads the DQ-10 keeps cropping up as another speaker that benefited from stacking-anyone heard them?
Cheers Si
The DQ10s look like Quad 57s but are moving coils, with lots of drivers in a "phased array". I remember one review describing the build quality as very poor for the money.