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Do Japanese amps do PRAT?

Discussion in 'audio' started by legolas, Aug 3, 2015.

  1. legolas

    legolas pfm Member

    Do any Japanese amps from the 70s onwards do prat as Flat Earthers know prat?
    Or was it just a UK thing?
  2. Robert

    Robert Tapehead

    It was a UK nonsense thing.

    There are good, bad and average amplifiers from all countries.
    The idea that a select group of British amplifiers 'time' better than others was just a clever marketing construct. If anyone thinks different, let them explain why an Exposure times better than a JVC.
  3. LPSpinner

    LPSpinner pfm Member

    My question is, what is “PRAT”? Can some one define it in plain tangible language and how a piece of electronics is able to portray this particular aspect of a musical performance?

    To my mind, Pace, Rhythm and Timing are qualities of the musical performance, rather than the equipment. If a performance has it then it will be portrayed by any piece of equipment from the humble iPod and ear-bud to the best equipment you can get your hands on.

    As for equipment quality, with equipment manufactured and designed in any country there are always good and bad examples to be found. I have heard great sounding Japanese kit just as I have heard average sounding and poorly built examples as well.

    It is all too easy to make sweeping generalisations about equipment sourced from one country based on anecdotal hearsay, once you look at the whole situation you can start to see (or hear) how it really is.

  4. Singslinger

    Singslinger pfm Member

    All of the above.
  5. legolas

    legolas pfm Member

    I was hoping for some useful replies before you round earth bullies close the thread down.
  6. Afranta

    Afranta pfm Member

    Oh no, no story time tonight! ;)
  7. MVV

    MVV pfm Member

    Flatpopely will know, he was a big fan of well known PRAT amps Naim (using the MEGAPRAT 72/Hiicap/ 135s) but now uses a Japanese JVC integrated instead.
    I don't know if it does PRAT though, or how much PRAT it does.

    I used to use Naim too but now have a NAD M3 designed by a Dane and made in China. It has loads of features but don't know if it has PRAT or not because I can't understand the remote.
  8. legolas

    legolas pfm Member

    Right, I'm not playing any more.
  9. RustyB

    RustyB Registered Ginga

    . If anyone thinks different, let them explain why an Exposure times better than a JVC.[/QUOTE]

    Er, because it was specifically designed to.
  10. RustyB

    RustyB Registered Ginga

    Harman Kardon amps from the 80's and 90's certainly do.

    (My HK 1400 replaced an Exposure XX super).

    With brands like Naim, Exposure and Densen, you can guarantee that any of their products will excel in that area, because it is a specific design criteria.

    With amps in general, you never know, some manufacturers get it right by accident, but it's obvious that it's not a design priority.

    I had a later HK amp, the 675, which was disappointing.
  11. dudywoxer

    dudywoxer pfm Member

    How do you design a amp to do prat, and not fail at everything else?
    During that period the most prat involved came either from the press, or more likely from the prat that started tapping his toes, nodding his head, and smiling broadly as more linn/naim went into the system on demonstration. It still surprises me that doing a decent impression of a back shelf dog sold hi fi, but it did.
  12. flatpopely

    flatpopely Prog Rock/Moderator

    I think the PRAT thing is because of the subtle distortion that classic PRAT amp have that highlight the upper mid. This particularly makes drums sound more punchy but actually is just slight coloration.

    The JVC I have has none of that and sound better because of if.
  13. narabdela

    narabdela who?

    Very funny. ;)
  14. muzzer

    muzzer Numb Nut

    Where's Gaius when you need him:D
  15. kennyh

    kennyh pfm Member

    I'd heard about PRAT, Flat earth etc. but never had a clue what it was all about so never even tried to get involved in finding out.

    However this thread about Jap amps has made me have a google around the web to get an inkling of what it's all about.

    I've been fortunate enough recently to play with some biggish and vintage Japanese amps, and have also still got my Naim pre/powers and Hicaps to reference against, along with some valve gear.

    If I'm reading this right, and correct me if I'm not then Naim is "classed" as Flat earth with PRAT built in? Is that the gist?

    So say I put a big Sony Vfet up against the Olive Naim for instance, yes the difference is stark.
    The attack of the snares, the punch of drums etc. on the Naim "out thumps "the Vfet. whether that's a good thing or not would depend on how you like your music........I'm a Naim fan by the way.

    What gets me though is that on some tracks the edgy punch of the olive can become tiresome, and there is no way of backing it for buying maybe new boards for the pre, a bit tiresome swapping them out for every genre of music though;)

    Taking again the Vfet as an example with all tone controls defeated it can sound maybe boring, but add some treble, reduce bass or visa versa and the whole sound changes. Crank the treble up a notch, leave the bass as is and does not PRAT then come into play on the Sony too? or am I being daft?

    I fell for the "Naim has no tone controls as it's perfect as it is" line and actually started believing amps with knobs were silly.

    However, the individual listening may just not agree with what the manufacturer deems as perfect, so it's nice to alter it a tad when you see fit.

    Again interesting stuff guys.
  16. rich46

    rich46 quad rules

    all naim PR nonsense two well designed class ab amps will be very similar in voicing. manufactures tweek the the bandwidth response. Class A/VALVE ARE A DIFFERENT MATTER
  17. kennyh

    kennyh pfm Member

    As I've very recently found out, different league.
  18. russel

    russel ./_dazed_and_confused

    Naim found out that if you use star earthing on an amplifier, as you are supposed to, and used a power supply that didn't dip in time to the music, as you are supposed to, that it sounded better than one that didn't. Lots of amplifier designs didn't bother with star earthing and saved money on the PSU and sounded different to the ones that did.
  19. abbydog

    abbydog pfm Member

    Take the biggest weakness of a product - it cannot 'time' for toffee - and then pretend everyone else is wrong.
  20. zippy

    zippy pfm Member

    Japanese hifi, especially amps, are often snubbed for no reason at all.
    Some of the best amps I've heard have been the big Marantz/Denon/Sony models

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