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Disintegration of Russia?

Those Vlasovites never stood a chance…reminds me of the Bay of Pigs fiasco.
It was merely a diversion from the loss of Bakhmut…readily gobbled up by Uncle Sam’s slobbering bulldogs.
 
Whilst referring, somewhat euphemistically, to the loss of Bakhmut, it's worth noting the result of Prigozhins/Putins seeming 'victory'.

President Zelenskyy says, 'They destroyed everything'.

https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2023/5/21/ukraines-zelenskyy-appears-to-confirm-loss-of-bakhmut-to-russia#:~:text=Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelenskyy has,the Japanese city of Hiroshima.

Accordingly, it appears very much like what they've captured is not so much a city but a huge swathe of blood-soaked rubble. This is what Russian 'disintegration' looks like.

John
 
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palindrome said:
Whilst referring, somewhat euphemistically, to the loss of Bakhmut, it's worth noting the result of Prigozhins/Putins seeming 'victory'.

President Zelenskyy says, 'They destroyed everything'.

https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2023/5/21/ukraines-zelenskyy-appears-to-confirm-loss-of-bakhmut-to-russia#:~:text=Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelenskyy has,the Japanese city of Hiroshima.

Accordingly, it appears very much like what they've captured is not so much a city but a huge swathe of blood-soaked rubble. This is what Russian 'disintegration' looks like.

John
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The NATO backed Ukrainian Army fought for 244 days trying to hold onto that huge swathe of blood-soaked rubble. That fact alone speaks volumes of the significance of the battle.
 
rough edges said:
The NATO backed Ukrainian Army fought for 244 days trying to hold onto that huge swathe of blood-soaked rubble. That fact alone speaks volumes of the significance of the battle.
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I have no idea what that comment is supposed to mean.

NATO advised Ukraine to withdraw from Bakhmut, a long while ago, but the Ukrainians were determined that it was a way to grind down the Russian forces at a rate well in excess of their own losses.
Various sources suggest that the Russian losses were around five times greater than Ukrainian and both US and UK military experts now reckon that they were wrong, the Ukrainians correct.

War is a crock of shit, it just depends who gets the largest share.

Also. What virtually no-one remembers or mentions, is that when Ukraine seceded from the greater Russia/Russian federation, call it what you will, the agreement with Russia was for virtually all arms within Ukraine to be surrendered to Russia and in return, the US and UK would stand as guarantors of Ukrainian security/independence. Russia signed-up to this - The Budapest Memorandum, 1994.
 
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Vinny said:
I have no idea what that comment is supposed to mean.

NATO advised Ukraine to withdraw from Bakhmut, a long while ago, but the Ukrainians were determined that it was a way to grind down the Russian forces at a rate well in excess of their own losses.
Various sources suggest that the Russian losses were around five times greater than Ukrainian and both US and UK military experts now reckon that they were wrong, the Ukrainians correct.

War is a crock of shit, it just depends who gets the largest share.

Also. What virtually no-one remembers or mentions, is that when Ukraine seceded from the greater Russia/Russian federation, call it what you will, the agreement with Russia was for virtually all arms within Ukraine to be surrendered to Russia and in return, the US and UK would stand as guarantors of Ukrainian security/independence. Russia signed-up to this - The Budapest Memorandum, 1994.
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If the NATO/Ukrainian army was doing so well, why did Zelensky go to Hiroshima to beg the G7 leaders for longer range missiles and F-16s?
FYI, three or four BBC channels do not qualify as "various sources.
 
rough edges said:
FYI, three or four BBC channels do not qualify as "various sources.
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FYI - you REALLY need to get educated and informed, and quit spouting nonsense invented by yourself, helped, by the look of things, by miscellaneous hare-brained conspiracy theory nutters and Russian propagandists.

For your further information, I have not knowingly heard any such figures on any BBC channel.

Further, further information - Ukraine had long range missles well before Hiroshima recently. As much as anything he attended to petition India, to stop buying Russian oil, and to try to get India to show less general suport for Russia.

I could go on, but you are probably not open to facts and reason.
 
Vinny said:
FYI - you REALLY need to get educated and informed, and quit spouting nonsense invented by yourself, helped, by the look of things, by miscellaneous hare-brained conspiracy theory nutters and Russian propagandists.

For your further information, I have not knowingly heard any such figures on any BBC channel.

Further, further information - Ukraine had long range missles well before Hiroshima recently. As much as anything he attended to petition India, to stop buying Russian oil, and to try to get India to show less general suport for Russia.

I could go on, but you are probably not open to facts and reason.
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don’t worry. He’s going to be in for a bit of a shock once the counter offensive gets going.
 
palindrome said:
Whilst referring, somewhat euphemistically, to the loss of Bakhmut, it's worth noting the result of Prigozhins/Putins seeming 'victory'.

President Zelenskyy says, 'They destroyed everything'.

https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2023/5/21/ukraines-zelenskyy-appears-to-confirm-loss-of-bakhmut-to-russia#:~:text=Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelenskyy has,the Japanese city of Hiroshima.

Accordingly, it appears very much like what they've captured is not so much a city but a huge swathe of blood-soaked rubble. This is what Russian 'disintegration' looks like.

John
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do you think this would prevent ukrs from taking it back when the time comes...
 
Vinny said:
Further, further information - Ukraine had long range missles well before Hiroshima recently. As much as anything he attended to petition India, to stop buying Russian oil, and to try to get...
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fwiw india is buying russian crude oil on behalf of united states - they process it and sell various derivates to biden. we had this discussion earlier but you overslept it... some of the us propagandists here claimed its a great way to destroy putin...
 
Russia has been asset stripped by gangsters, just like the U.K. except our gangsters talk with nice accents, were born into the right families and went to the right schools.

Eastern Russia and the central Asian states will fall under the influence of China (eventually to be taken over).

For the benefit of those not paying attention, Russian money will by-pass London. Lots going to the ME now, especially the UAE were there’s large gangster / money laundering operations. Also India and the Asia countries.
 
Colin L said:
Russia has been asset stripped by gangsters, just like the U.K. except our gangsters talk with nice accents, were born into the right families and went to the right schools.

Eastern Russia and the central Asian states will fall under the influence of China (eventually to be taken over).

For the benefit of those not paying attention, Russian money will by-pass London. Lots going to the ME now, especially the UAE were there’s large gangster / money laundering operations. Also India and the Asia countries.
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Eastern Russia will not be taken over by China. It’s obvious that you have never heard of the Belt and Road Initiative or the Shanghai Cooperation Organization. If you had, you wouldn’t have made such a statement.
Russia and China also have a mutual defence agreement that’s been in place for some years now, similar to article 5 of the NATO.
 
It's so wonderful that Mother Russia has completed the denazification of Bakhmut. And that Prigozhin seems such a nice fellow too.
 
rough edges said:
Eastern Russia will not be taken over by China. It’s obvious that you have never heard of the Belt and Road Initiative or the Shanghai Cooperation Organization. If you had, you wouldn’t have made such a statement.
Russia and China also have a mutual defence agreement that’s been in place for some years now, similar to article 5 of the NATO.
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and it’s pretty clear you don’t know the Chinese as I do having lived in Asia for 12 years, visited China regularly and am married to an ethnic Chinese woman.

China thinks long term and any current alliance with Russia is for present convenience only. Russian reliance on China will only hasten its weakening. China will bide its time, support Russian when it suits them in exchange for what they want long term.

WW3 is effectively ongoing. It’s a war for access to third world resources and China is winning.
 
Losses, according to the man who ought to know - Prigozhin, and some analysis of what he claims, note that he is talking only about Wagner, and there were plenty of Russian state troops involved at various stages -


If anyone cares to search, there are analyses online of Russian electronic warfare and supposed US guided bombs.
Concensus, so far as I can make out - Russian jamming is state of the art, even if their other military hardware is a long way short. US intelligent bombs were a short-cut, mostly, and are hopeless if the Russsians are actively jamming sat nav signals anywhere close. (Presumably, Russian sat nav communications are based on a distant wavelength compared to the ROW - they aren't daft, these Russians........)
 
Colin L said:
and it’s pretty clear you don’t know the Chinese as I do having lived in Asia for 12 years, visited China regularly and am married to an ethnic Chinese woman.

China thinks long term and any current alliance with Russia is for present convenience only. Russian reliance on China will only hasten its weakening. China will bide its time, support Russian when it suits them in exchange for what they want long term.

WW3 is effectively ongoing. It’s a war for access to third world resources and China is winning.
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Thanks, but I’ll take the consensus opinions of the geopolitical analysts that I follow over the opinions of you and your wife. Sorry, but you have to do better than that.
 
kensalriser said:
It's so wonderful that Mother Russia has completed the denazification of Bakhmut. And that Prigozhin seems such a nice fellow too.
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The irony is laughable- a Russian mercenary army named after one of the most notorious German antisemites of the 19th C., comprised of prison convicts, arrives in a peaceful, democratic neighbouring country with a Jewish President in order to ‘denazify’ them. Oh and run by an ex-convict with a catering company. Only in Russia.
 
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