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Digital Strategy - What's the best way to go for sound quality

revoli

Member
I want to upgrade my source to incorporate digital hi Fi. My Marantz CD 52 SE is seriously old and I need to move to serious digital hi Fi. Up until now my money has been on the vinyl side of things but I think digital sound may be getting closer to challenge vinyl (sadly). I have read extensively and think the best thing would be to invest in best DAC I can afford and play the Marantz through that supported by pc with a big disc. when budget allows and product is right a dedicated media player of some sort. So first things first. Would welcome views on best way to get DAC - looks like £1500 needed for something like audio note DAC kit - I would be happy to build something but my expertise on DAC architecture is limited. I also like the look of the Lampizator stuff (www.lampizator.eu) but not sure if they do kits. What is the best thing to do? I have not changed my core system for 25 years and could sell what I have now for a lot more than I paid for it. How do I future proof for next 25 years and get max sound. As this has got to sit in the living room and therefore be sanctioned by she who must be obeyed a good looking DAC valve combo feels right. At the back end should I just hang on to the old CD transport and look to hook up a big disc to PC. What is the optimum PC to DAC linkage soundwise? Any recommendations on DACs, kits or plans that are proven? Views greatly appreciated
 
You don't need to spend £1500+ for the best sounding dacs.
If you want something that tells the truth and just takes the data and reconstructs this into analogue with superb technical accuracy, £250 on a Cambridge DacMagic is all you need to spend. The £160 MF V-Dac is snapping at its heals and I seriously doubt that people could tell them apart on sonics.

You can spend a lot more but only one or two seriously expensive units will give you technical improvements. I wouldn't bother as you'll not hear the benefit.

Some dacs are designed to sound 'different' and they do so by departing from a superlative technical performance, so that might include response tailoring and/or added distortions.
You usually pay a premium for these effects as they are often sold as benefits. If you like them - great but just be aware what is happening.
 
I guess the only way really is to listen to them. I am tempted to order up a gigaworks 24/192 DAC off eBay, build it then get an audio note unit demo to see how they compare. I think they do home demos - I guess they can afford to.
 
In case you hadn't realised Robert is a bit of measurement extremist. There's plenty of good dacs available at all price points but to get one that sounds the way you like, as opposed to measures ruler flat and sounds lifelessly un-involving you may have to pay more than £250.

Probably the best current DIY option is the Twisted Pear Buffalo, based on the ESS Sabre chip.
 
I have enjoyed squeezeboxes and will continue to do so, but recently I bought a set top box that can see twonky servers. This means that I can get hold of music and films and pictures from my computers straight onto my tv. The set top box doesn't do flac, but that should come with a bit of luck.
 
If you are going the DIY route the Twisted Pear stuff is good but these are not for the novice. If you want one ready to go have a listen to the Benchmark DAC1 HDR; just on your budget and IMHO a real giant killer.

You will get a big just in sound quality when you rip your CD then feed them to the DAC from a computer. You don't need an expensive "media server" you can build one up for beer money. I used a NSLU2 off eBay for £35; totally silent and gets the files via the network from a NAS.
 
The best PC to DAC linkage is one which allows the DAC clock to be independent of the data link. Think Ethernet (SB etc), Firewire and USB (if implemented correctly).
 
If the OP's thread title is anything to go by, then maybe - just maybe - it would be wise to define the source material and source medium before diving into specific DAC recommendations....

The word "strategy" implies a longer-term viewpoint than any immediate action plan that involves buying components.

Many of the smaller, more specialised music labels have released hi-res (24-bit, 192KHz) music files. These can be acquired either via download (lengthy process and bandwidth-hungry) or on DVDs. Depending on who you listen to, this could just be the potential long-term distribution strategy for the music industry at large (unless Sony/Phillips get into another format war).

24-bit/192KHz digital audio has the potential, in terms of sound quality, to surpass all other current media formats.

So, if you accept this as the long-term strategy of those organisations who will be publishing music in the future, then your strategy needs to cater for this. (At my age, I don't think I'll bother with a full-blown strategy, just make sure that any short-term, tactical purchases don't take me into a blind alley.)

Another source of useful intelligence on this subject is to maintain a watching brief on the more innovative of the audio manufacturers to see where they are going. In this way you can leverage their market research and use the information gathered to help build the technology elements of your strategy.

To digress briefly, Paul McGowan - CEO of PS Audio - adopted an interesting approach to designing his latest CDT/DAC combo - he used the company website as a "blog" to gather requirements that he factored into the design. The end result was his Perfect Wave duo of PWT (transport) and PWD (DAC). The PWT uses a computer-style overspeed mechanism to read and re-read a disk and to populate a 64MB FIFO buffer, which then feeds a "digital lens" to minimise jitter, before pushing out a I2S signal via a proprietary implementation of HDMI. The PWD takes this I2S digital datastream and pumps it through a Wolfson DAC chip. The PWD also has an optional "bridge" card with an Ethernet port for connection to a NAS and which also incorporates its own "digital lens" for jitter reduction on the feed from the NAS before pumping the datastream into the same Wolfson DAC chip. Both PWT and PWD have touch screen interfaces and SD card slots. The concept seemed to be a good one, but - from auditions - the execution has not quite delivered. At a guess, the target price-point (originally $2,000 each for the PWT and PWD but was overshot by 50% and the units now sell for around $3,000 each) resulted in a need to shave some costs (R&D must have been high with the software engineering on the UI and the lens development) which has potentially had its impact on SQ. (end of not-quite-so-brief-aside).

The next aspect in formulating your strategy is to firm up two factors:

  1. What is your horizon for your strategy (in years)
  2. How much are you prepared to invest in implementing your strategy

Another factor that should be taken into consideration is how your strategy will "tack onto" what you currently have - both in terms of software and hardware (unless your budget is big enough to discard and re-purchase all of your current music collection - not mois!).

This can be important as, should you decide that you will retain all your current music collection (irrespective of media), then your budget may be diluted as you spread it across multiple source components. The alternative is to reduce your number of source components and to discard/replace chunks of your music collection - some of which may just be irreplaceable. (Sound like something of a "Catch-22"?).

Next, start to plot milestones along your strategic timeline and set initial goals to be achieved by each of these milestones - these will need to be re-visited on a cyclic basis to allow the taking into consideration of any changes in internal and external factors to allow mid-course corrections to the strategy. Examples could include: a change in your financial situation; a change in format strategy by the music publishers; etc.

Your "strategic budget" will have an influence on the technological path options open to you - the smaller the budget, the more likely you'll wind up with a platform based on personal computer hardware, with all that goes with it.

Your decision: Do you really want a "strategy" and all that it implies? Or would you be satisfied with a "general direction"?

Me? The "general direction" approach is more appropriate at my age. All I'm doing is ensuring that any hardware purchases I make don't paint me into a corner. Hence the decision to go for the Bryston BDA-1 DAC as a replacement for a defunct Theta unit - Bryston's direction includes a USB-fed digital "player" which has been designed in conjunction with DAC to ensure they will work together... That's good enough for me and my "general direction" approach...

Have fun!
:cool:
 
Some insightful postings thanks. If I summarise my strategy as optimal sound quality against any given budget point that would indicate my mindset. There are two sources in my simplistic mind, vinyl and digital. The format and storage of the latter will change but the translation into analogue will not, unless someone comes up with some digital head implants or something....

Vinyl I have just about sussed after 40 years ish of trial and error. Digital I think will see lots of new products in the coming years but at the end of the day it's just a black box until it gets to translation to analogue. This for me sounds like where to place my bucks. I am thoroughly impressed by the lampizator dac offerings, at least without hearing them. The story appears sound and I suspect offers the best forward upgrade roadmap. But does it really sound as good as people claim.... And can I justify the expenditure by telling myself that's a unit for the next 20 years? I guess I am thinking of a DAC as I thought about my Rega Planar 3 which I bought 26 years ago: I ran it through an Amstrad ghetto blaster for a year before I could buy amp and speakers. If I buy the DAC now I can sort the source out as better cheaper products come through else just use a PC.....
 
Some insightful postings thanks. If I summarise my strategy as optimal sound quality against any given budget point that would indicate my mindset. There are two sources in my simplistic mind, vinyl and digital. The format and storage of the latter will change but the translation into analogue will not, unless someone comes up with some digital head implants or something....

Vinyl I have just about sussed after 40 years ish of trial and error. Digital I think will see lots of new products in the coming years but at the end of the day it's just a black box until it gets to translation to analogue. This for me sounds like where to place my bucks. I am thoroughly impressed by the lampizator dac offerings, at least without hearing them. The story appears sound and I suspect offers the best forward upgrade roadmap. But does it really sound as good as people claim.... And can I justify the expenditure by telling myself that's a unit for the next 20 years? I guess I am thinking of a DAC as I thought about my Rega Planar 3 which I bought 26 years ago: I ran it through an Amstrad ghetto blaster for a year before I could buy amp and speakers. If I buy the DAC now I can sort the source out as better cheaper products come through else just use a PC.....

Audio rarely sounds much like the claims made by the manufacturer of the fan/supporter base on forums. You must listen for yourself, preferably without knowledge of what you are listening to. That way you make the correct choice.

Remember that a dac is a box of electronics designed to reconstruct the analogue signal form the digital code. It doesn't think and has no conception of music - it performs a task, a job of work.
It does this properly or it doesn't.

But you needn't actually worry too much. There are very few lemons around so whatever you buy is likely to perform well enough given we are talking about a mature technology.
 
Ash, you are so wrong it hurts.

Back in your box!

Of course I'm not and I doubt you'd be able to tell a Transit from one of the best in a proper blind test. And this is my point, DACs are so good now, especially Pro Audio ones, you simply don't need to spend lots of money, but if you feel you do, then try and find one that genuinely sounds better than this one which sells for between £59 and £71.

It's a good A to D and Headphone and as well as providing a 24/96 optical digital out from a USB socket.

Don't let lack of understanding and audio snobbery spend your money for you.

Ash
 
I can, and have, identified differences between transports.
I think you're confusing matters by trying to listen for differences using those crappy little computer speakers of yours. The m-audio does not have a good jitter spec.

For good digital output from a computer, a Lynx card is one of the best.
 
ive been through this last week when i was told a Benchmark DAC1 would out perform my CDS3. Needless to say its didnt come close. Having good specs. doesnt mean its going to sound musical. While the SQ was good in terms of details it was certainly no mroe detailed than a CDS3. In terms of musicality the dac was completely out gunned in all aspects. It sounds lifeless and flat compared to my cdp. Now while i do think the banchmark is a VFM product its a long shot off being a giant killer Dac. It barely compares to the Dac in a AV2 which i was using before it so i really wouldnt like to think what you hear with a £59 dac. Ide suggest using it on a more revealing system and am sure you would hear massive differences in the SQ from dacs to £1000 dacs.
 


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