Devialet Phantom

[onlyconnect]

These distinctive round-ish active speakers combine Devialet's class A/D hybrid amplification with a new approach to speaker technology, to get unusually extended bass from a small enclosure. I saw and heard them in Barcelona recently and did a quick write-up:

http://gadgets.itwriting.com/3271-devialets-phantom-audio-system-on-show-in-barcelona.html

Anyone else heard these? What did you think?

Tim

 

[mattgbell]

The quantity and quality of bass they produce is extraordinary: they are massively powerful. I only listened to them briefly (at Harrods); they did a great job with Wagner.

Devialet need to sort out the software side. The product appears not to be quite ready for stereo use. Frank has a pair and may be along in a while to share his thoughts.

 

[onlyconnect]

Devialet need to sort out the software side. The product appears not to be quite ready for stereo use. Frank has a pair and may be along in a while to share his thoughts.

That is interesting. I did wonder about how good the imaging would be.

Then again, 5.1 might work rather well (at a price)?

Tim

 

[mattgbell]

I didn't listen to them in optimal conditions or for long enough to get a sense of the imaging.

Once they get the units to talk to one another reliably, there'll be almost endless possibilities. I'd have thought they'd obviate the need for a sub: they go sooo deep.

 

[Strictly Stereo]

The companion Dialog product is at least as interesting as the Phantom itself, promising to add stereo and multi-channel capabilities to the Phantom, but also multi-room and UPnP streaming to Devialet's existing "expert" amplifier range.

 

[strummer]

The quantity and quality of bass they produce is extraordinary: they are massively powerful. I only listened to them briefly (at Harrods); they did a great job with Wagner.

Devialet need to sort out the software side. The product appears not to be quite ready for stereo use. Frank has a pair and may be along in a while to share his thoughts.

Yes, I can almost see it...

Actually, I had a dream that Aliens would come & lay a pair of silver Eggs in my living room. The following week my credit card bill arrived showing a phanton debit

 

[F1eng]

I bought a pair of Silver Phantoms and a Dialog.
The sound quality is superb for the price. By having a small spherical fronted co-axial speaker layout they solve all the diffraction defects of conventional easy to make rectangular boxes with spaced drive units at a stroke. The DSP controlled bass has very low distortion and astonishing bandwidth.
The down side, so far, is the software and firmware. Basically they don't work as long as my typical listening session without crashing. A CD transport into an optical connector in either Phantom works well, streaming from my computer does not with hic-ups or silence on one channel for the first few seconds of each track, perhaps whilst the data is being fed to the Dialog.
Sometimes one speaker goes silent and checking the control software, Spark, shows that that speaker is no longer on the list of connected items. Re-doing the setup almost always hangs. I usually give up at this point and listen to my normal system. The Dialog smells very hot.
So far neither the USB nor the optical connections on the Dialog have been implemented. I don't know about 5.1, since I only have 2, but Spark seems not to have a setup for more than 2 speakers per room at the moment, so I presume that also is yet to be implemented.

In summary I would say the speaker itself is a brilliant concept, solving many of the problems inherent in traditional boxes.
The software (or internal firmware perhaps) has been issued very incomplete and before even that which is included works properly.

I will bring mine to Scalford and see how long we can get them working for. The SQ, particularly bass, is ground breaking IMO.

I had planned to use them for the rear channels of a movie system with Devialet classic amped front speakers, but assuming they de-bug the software which I am sure they will, 4 of them would replace a 5.1 system IMO since neither a centre speaker nor sub would be needed.

 

[onlyconnect]

I will bring mine to Scalford and see how long we can get them working for. The SQ, particularly bass, is ground breaking IMO.

That's good, which room?

I am in 232 (quite possibly).

The other faults are troubling, have you checked that you don't have a faulty Dialog?

Tim

 

[strummer]

I bought a pair of Silver Phantoms and a Dialog.
The sound quality is superb for the price. By having a small spherical fronted co-axial speaker layout they solve all the diffraction defects of conventional easy to make rectangular boxes with spaced drive units at a stroke. The DSP controlled bass has very low distortion and astonishing bandwidth.
The down side, so far, is the software and firmware. Basically they don't work as long as my typical listening session without crashing. A CD transport into an optical connector in either Phantom works well, streaming from my computer does not with hic-ups or silence on one channel for the first few seconds of each track, perhaps whilst the data is being fed to the Dialog.
Sometimes one speaker goes silent and checking the control software, Spark, shows that that speaker is no longer on the list of connected items. Re-doing the setup almost always hangs. I usually give up at this point and listen to my normal system. The Dialog smells very hot.
So far neither the USB nor the optical connections on the Dialog have been implemented. I don't know about 5.1, since I only have 2, but Spark seems not to have a setup for more than 2 speakers per room at the moment, so I presume that also is yet to be implemented.

In summary I would say the speaker itself is a brilliant concept, solving many of the problems inherent in traditional boxes.
The software (or internal firmware perhaps) has been issued very incomplete and before even that which is included works properly.

I will bring mine to Scalford and see how long we can get them working for. The SQ, particularly bass, is ground breaking IMO.

I had planned to use them for the rear channels of a movie system with Devialet classic amped front speakers, but assuming they de-bug the software which I am sure they will, 4 of them would replace a 5.1 system IMO since neither a centre speaker nor sub would be needed.

So are these things completely reliant on Wifi?

Is it not possible to plug a CDP into the Dialogue & network cables from Dialogue to Phantoms?

 

[F1eng]

So are these things completely reliant on Wifi?

Is it not possible to plug a CDP into the Dialogue & network cables from Dialogue to Phantoms?

You can connect a single unit and run it in mono by optical digital and maybe ethernet, I haven't tried (which is the way it was originally marketed as an alternative to, say, a Naim Muso) but the control programme, which choses the source and volume is wifi only.
If you want stereo (and theoretically up to 24 Phantoms in different rooms and combinations of mono or stereo) the Dialog box is needed. It connects to ones network by ethernet and has a private wifi network connecting it to the Phantoms. Again wifi is needed to chose source, or stream from a computer or Qubuz or Deezer.
An internet connection is needed for setup.
Apparently they update themselves via internet as and when new firmware is issued.

They are not, nor have ever been intended to be replace old style hifi components. They are intended to fit into a modern young persons lifestyle and as such I have, as an old codger, reservations.
If you are even remotely technophobic steer well clear.

 

[F1eng]

That's good, which room?

I am in 232 (quite possibly).

The other faults are troubling, have you checked that you don't have a faulty Dialog?

Tim

I am going to have a go at setting them up in the bar/reception area on Saturday evening, and if I get them working I have been offered to share Serge's room on Sunday.

I reported my concerns and experiences to the Devialet help line. They apologised and said these were known problems with Spark (they used the word issue instead of problem as so many people do nowadays, infuriatingly) and they were working on an update to Spark. I am worried by my Dialog smelling hot, but other owners have reported the same. Maybe a bad batch or just poor firmware running the processor hard.

 

[strummer]

You can connect a single unit and run it in mono by optical digital and maybe ethernet, I haven't tried (which is the way it was originally marketed as an alternative to, say, a Naim Muso) but the control programme, which choses the source and volume is wifi only.
If you want stereo (and theoretically up to 24 Phantoms in different rooms and combinations of mono or stereo) the Dialog box is needed. It connects to ones network by ethernet and has a private wifi network connecting it to the Phantoms. Again wifi is needed to chose source, or stream from a computer or Qubuz or Deezer.
An internet connection is needed for setup.
Apparently they update themselves via internet as and when new firmware is issued.

They are not, nor have ever been intended to be replace old style hifi components. They are intended to fit into a modern young persons lifestyle and as such I have, as an old codger, reservations.
If you are even remotely technophobic steer well clear.

YIKES!!!!! Well I'm full on technophobe & I have a pair of Silver Phantoms + Dialog en route...

After 2 weeks with the D250 I have enough love & faith in Devialet to suck up some teething problems.

Surely they will sort this stuff out?

 

[F1eng]

YIKES!!!!! Well I'm full on technophobe & I have a pair of Silver Phantoms + Dialog en route...

After 2 weeks with the D250 I have enough love & faith in Devialet to suck up some teething problems.

Surely they will sort this stuff out?

Well I expect so.
I knew from the web site how they worked before I ordered them and also anticipated that the delay in delivery was due to Spark not being de-bugged, but it is nevertheless worse than I expected, even though only part of the functionality has so far been implemented.
So far no possibility of them being the rear channels of my surround system yet so I just set them up as a stereo pair as a matter of interest.
Impressive whilst they are working but I have not had a listening session yet where they did not stop working in one of two ways.

I have had a Devialet amp since 2011 and it is most certainly the best amp I have ever heard. I am convinced by their engineering but they seem to have bitten of more than they could chew software wise recently.

 

[mattgbell]

I shouldn't imagine the networking of the Dialog and Phantom units is much different in principle from what a Sonos Mesh network does. OK, it needs bigger bandwidth because of the file formats. But aside from the file formats, the Phantom/Dialog system doesn't do anything that Sonos hasn't successfully done since 2002. So I see no reason why Devialet shouldn't be able to make this work pretty soon. (Frank may disagree .)

 

[F1eng]

I shouldn't imagine the networking of the Dialog and Phantom units is much different in principle from what a Sonos Mesh network does. OK, it needs bigger bandwidth because of the file formats. But aside from the file formats, the Phantom/Dialog system doesn't do anything that Sonos hasn't successfully done since 2002. So I see no reason why Devialet shouldn't be able to make this work pretty soon. (Frank may disagree .)

I don't see why they didn't do it before releasing to the public.

But they didn't

And implementing the USB connector on the Dialog is not expected before summer, this is the proposed link to their normal (now dubbed Expert line) amplifiers. Maybe the Dialog optical input will be implemented at the same time.

 

[strummer]

Well I expect so.
I knew from the web site how they worked before I ordered them and also anticipated that the delay in delivery was due to Spark not being de-bugged, but it is nevertheless worse than I expected, even though only part of the functionality has so far been implemented.
So far no possibility of them being the rear channels of my surround system yet so I just set them up as a stereo pair as a matter of interest.
Impressive whilst they are working but I have not had a listening session yet where they did not stop working in one of two ways.

I have had a Devialet amp since 2011 and it is most certainly the best amp I have ever heard. I am convinced by their engineering but they seem to have bitten of more than they could chew software wise recently.

At time of order mine were quoted at 30th March. I understand there are delays? I would be quite happy for mine to be delayed a few weeks in the hope that these bugs might be fixed (at least in part) by then.

I've had a few decent Amps from Quad, Naim, Accuphase, Meridian, McIntosh, David Berning & various Valve ensembles & the D250 is easily the best I've had, so if I have to wait a few months, I don't mind.

 

[mattgbell]

I share your attitude. The performance of the D amps with electrodynamic speakers is class leading. There's bags of functionality there too. SAM is excellent. There have been some niggles with AIR and configuration of dual-mono units, but nothing too worrying.

I ordered a Dialog to use with my D200. It's a bit disappointing that it doesn't work yet (and reports of the Dialog overheating aren't promising), but I trust Devialet to sort things out.

 

[FL390]

They are not, nor have ever been intended to be replace old style hifi components.
They are intended to fit into a modern young persons lifestyle and as such I have, as an old codger, reservations.

I'm curious. So what are the limitations on their use as a replacement for "old style hifi"?
Sound quality?

 

[F1eng]

I'm curious. So what are the limitations on their use as a replacement for "old style hifi"?
Sound quality?

Connectivity.

The sound quality is fantastic, particularly in view of the price, I am listening to mine as I type, but the only connection from one to another as a stereo pair is via the proprietary Dialog wireless protocol.

The Dialog has ethernet, USB, and optical digital connections. It connects to the house network using Ethernet and to the Phantoms via its aforementioned proprietary network.
Each Phantom has an Ethernet and an optical digital input too.
Neither the optical nor the USB connections on the Dialog have yet been implemented in firmware.

I have the optical output of a CD transport connected to one of the Phantoms and the stereo is superb, so the Dialog effectively uses that input as well obviously.

Any analogue inputs one wanted to use would have to either be digitised by a device with an optical digital output or by linking it to a normal Devialet amplifier using the USB connection which is not due to be implemented until later this year. The Spark software used to control volume and input is buggy still.

That is why I say it is unsuited to technophobes.

 

[F1eng]

At time of order mine were quoted at 30th March. I understand there are delays? I would be quite happy for mine to be delayed a few weeks in the hope that these bugs might be fixed (at least in part) by then.

I've had a few decent Amps from Quad, Naim, Accuphase, Meridian, McIntosh, David Berning & various Valve ensembles & the D250 is easily the best I've had, so if I have to wait a few months, I don't mind.

I ordered mine in December and did hassle them about delays in delivery. Mine were originally due to be shipped in February but eventually came just over a week ago.
I think the delays were due to Spark still being incomplete and buggy myself. It still is.
I have had a lot of amps too and the Devialet was the first to match a Goldmund pre/monobloc combo which (absurdly, their prices have gone mad) would cost €190,000 to replace with the current Goldmund equivalents (I presume these are better than my 15 year old units but not much I'd bet).
I have been a delighted Devialet amp owner for 4 years now.

I am listening to some Vaughan Williams on the Phantoms as I type and the bass speed and lack of overhang is uncanny. The point source layout with no difraction producing corners gives superb stereo too.