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Devialet Phantom (part II)

Had a pair since the start. Love them. Never cease to amaze me in comparison to what I have owned before at 5 x the price.
My bigger system was better but the cash in my pocket and sheer convenience more than compensates.
 
For those who love them what kind of kit do you feel you'd have to go to in order to equal them?

As stated somewhere upthread my only exposure so far was a listen to on the whole rather poor quality source material at Scalford last year and I left quite confused. On the couple of well recorded stereo tracks they sounded superb, but even then I didn't hear anything I'd swap my huge (and in their own way flawed) Tannoys for, but I got the impression I liked them. My biggest concern was I often heard a hardness in the upper mid/low treble, kind of the digital 'glare' I hate with some CD systems and the sort of thing I can easily lose in my own system with a nice vacuum tube or two somewhere. I really don't like the input restrictions of the Phantoms, but when that core technology eventually ends up in a proper pro monitor with an analogue XLR on the back I'd be rather more interested. I'm sure it will in time, Neumann, Genelec etc have to have noticed their existence by now! Active studio monitors and a tube preamp is a very good system recipe IMHO.
 
I have owned a pair since March.
It is true that the initial version of Spark and the internal firmware were simply not yet ready when the hardware was first delivered, and I, and it seems several others, made the mistake of assuming all communication was wireless whereas they also use an ethernet over the mains type connection too which seems that the system relies on.
After a couple of firmware updates and as soon as mine were connected to non-filtered mains sockets such that the communication via the mains wiring was bullet proof they have been no problem at all and play faultlessly all the time here. There has been a firmware update which changes the volume control law to give finer resolution at low volumes. This has got a few owners knickers in a twist for some reason.

These are extremely wide band speakers which much better emulate a point source than a coffin shaped box with spaced drive units. They are extremely sensitive to stand and room position, like any wide band speaker.
Good stands and a position well away from walls and corners are, as always, necessary for clean bass, get it wrong, or put them on a table or other flat surface, and the bass is overpowering.
They are extremely transparent IME.
If you put on a poor recording the shortcomings are not papered over like they are in some lower resolution rolled off systems.
If you put on an excellent quality recording the sound is exceptional and particularly so for the price.
Here I have the following speakers available:-
Goldmund Epilog
Tune Audio Anima
Yamaha NS1000M
Proac EBS
KEF LS50
Harbeth P3ES+Extender
Each has its strengths and I really think speakers are a real matter of taste and room matching so it is a mistake to be of fixed opinion on brief audition.
They are not forgiving of either poor source or poor setup.
They are not warm coloured and cuddly...
After about 8 months of ownership I am still pleased and impressed by the sound quality. I have considered whether I could live with just them as my only speakers. On sound quality grounds I would say yes but as a classical music lover I do not find streamed music to be very convenient, and whilst it is OK for CDs, I have a CD transport connected to an optical input, and for TV sound there is no straightforward way to connect any of my turnables.
In the future there is supposed to be both a surround sound decoding firmware update for the Dialog, and also a means of connection of Phantoms and Devialet amps together (my plan was to use the Phantoms as rear channels perhaps) but the software people at Devialet are clearly very busy and these updates seem to be steadily receding into the future.

Overall I am impressed. I would say that anybody who does not like them either has heard them badly set up or with a poor recording or is somebody for whom a full range low distortion solution is not what they enjoy.
 
F1eng said:
..
Overall I am impressed. I would say that anybody who does not like them either has heard them badly set up or with a poor recording or is somebody for whom a full range low distortion solution is not what they enjoy.
Click to expand...

I don't have a problem with listening to and enjoying a "full range low distortion" concert at an opera house, concert hall, chamber music recital, cathedral, church or own home. So I reckon I do know what a full range low distortion solution might be, and the Phantoms I heard were most definitely not it. Each to his own. Notice I'll make no judgements about your preferences.
 
Some interesting comparisons there. If they can get close to the midrange delicacy of the little LS3/5A-alike Harbeths with the ease, headroom and effortlessness of a good 12" bass three-way like the Yams then they really are onto a winner. I'm in the 'old world'/'wannabe Japanese audiophile' world where my really big speakers (Tannoys) and my really little speakers (JR149s) each do things the other don't, yet I've heard no compromise in the middle size range that I could live with.
 
Sorry for the off-topic question, but noted that you use the Xtenders with your Harbeth P3ESRs

How do you find them? Do they integrate well and give signficiant additional bass extension?



F1eng said:
I have owned a pair since March.
It is true that the initial version of Spark and the internal firmware were simply not yet ready when the hardware was first delivered, and I, and it seems several others, made the mistake of assuming all communication was wireless whereas they also use an ethernet over the mains type connection too which seems that the system relies on.
After a couple of firmware updates and as soon as mine were connected to non-filtered mains sockets such that the communication via the mains wiring was bullet proof they have been no problem at all and play faultlessly all the time here. There has been a firmware update which changes the volume control law to give finer resolution at low volumes. This has got a few owners knickers in a twist for some reason.

These are extremely wide band speakers which much better emulate a point source than a coffin shaped box with spaced drive units. They are extremely sensitive to stand and room position, like any wide band speaker.
Good stands and a position well away from walls and corners are, as always, necessary for clean bass, get it wrong, or put them on a table or other flat surface, and the bass is overpowering.
They are extremely transparent IME.
If you put on a poor recording the shortcomings are not papered over like they are in some lower resolution rolled off systems.
If you put on an excellent quality recording the sound is exceptional and particularly so for the price.
Here I have the following speakers available:-
Goldmund Epilog
Tune Audio Anima
Yamaha NS1000M
Proac EBS
KEF LS50
Harbeth P3ES+Extender
Each has its strengths and I really think speakers are a real matter of taste and room matching so it is a mistake to be of fixed opinion on brief audition.
They are not forgiving of either poor source or poor setup.
They are not warm coloured and cuddly...
After about 8 months of ownership I am still pleased and impressed by the sound quality. I have considered whether I could live with just them as my only speakers. On sound quality grounds I would say yes but as a classical music lover I do not find streamed music to be very convenient, and whilst it is OK for CDs, I have a CD transport connected to an optical input, and for TV sound there is no straightforward way to connect any of my turnables.
In the future there is supposed to be both a surround sound decoding firmware update for the Dialog, and also a means of connection of Phantoms and Devialet amps together (my plan was to use the Phantoms as rear channels perhaps) but the software people at Devialet are clearly very busy and these updates seem to be steadily receding into the future.

Overall I am impressed. I would say that anybody who does not like them either has heard them badly set up or with a poor recording or is somebody for whom a full range low distortion solution is not what they enjoy.
Click to expand...
 
Tony L said:
Neumann, Genelec etc have to have noticed their existence by now! Active studio monitors and a tube preamp is a very good system recipe IMHO.
Click to expand...

Indeed the tube preamp active setup is a good match it certainly was with the Event Opals and it was a set up i could have lived with. I like the idea of having a smaller speaker that is involving at lower volumes and has good dynamics, extension and most important accurate timbre. I think in the end the Opals were compromised slightly in their dynamics but you'd expect that with a smaller two way speaker.
Like Frank said, all speakers have their strengths and weaknesses, the JBLs i had only really started to come alive when played at live volumes.

Maybe these new type of actives go some way to addressing that, ie the Phantoms, Kii's, Genelec 8351 etc. If not I'll be looking for another set of JBLs in the future!
 
FL390 said:
I don't own them, but I've had a good listen.
They are very good.

Bugs and software issues. It seems from reading the Devialetchat forum, that various issues come and go with each software update. Some haven't gone away.
Some people have received faulty Phantoms that have a low but audible hiss when no music is playing. Replacements are issued.

There are no coax inputs. Only one optical and one Ethernet on each Phantom.
If running two as a stereo pair, where you must use the Dialog box, there is only one input each of Ethernet, USB and optical on the Dialog.

Control (including volume control) is carried out via the Spark app, which has its own software issues, in so far as being widely regarded as a work in progress, or under featured at this stage of its existence.
They say it's gradually getting better with each update.

An optional stand alone volume control remote is now available, but it falls well short of what was promised and can only adjust volume and does nothing else (no promised e-paper display, no play/pause/next etc,). At £129 too!

Spark handles the streaming aspect, such as the integrated Tidal, Qobuz and Deezer services, as well as streaming from a local network source.
Some people have problems with using Spark for streaming, or just don't like it in its current form and use their own streamer (Sonos etc,) plugged into the Dialog's optical input.

The matching Branch stands, which were originally thought to cost £199, have turned out to cost £299 each.
They weren't available at launch, with only a small batch becoming available several months later, only to go "out of stock" again. Next availability Xmas or early next year? Who knows?


Having read a lot of user reviews and posts on the chat forum and elsewhere, my impression is that the sound quality is considered to be very good and if set up correctly will match or completely outgun many if not most component and speaker setups costing up to many thousands of £'s.
The biggest fans of the Phantom, appear to be the owners of very expensive main systems, costing serious money.

There are the usual issues regarding placement, especially so with the prodigious bass levels and they are reported to take a while for the drivers to loosen up and bed in, with a consequent improvement all round in sound quality.

The Phantoms are clearly not without technical issues and many of their owners appear to be getting a little bit frustrated.
The accusation or impression is that Devialet are slow and under resourced in the software development dept. and are very poor at communicating the progress being made with fixing issues and with new developments.

My own impression is that they have a technically brilliant product, that sounds exceptionally good, but is being held back by underdeveloped software and a slow response to dealing with problems.
Click to expand...



Thanks for the detailed reply FL390

That's enough to convince me I need to wait. I can't do with any faffing about.

ta!
 
banjoman said:
Sorry for the off-topic question, but noted that you use the Xtenders with your Harbeth P3ESRs

How do you find them? Do they integrate well and give signficiant additional bass extension?
Click to expand...

Depends on the music but mostly I prefer them used as stands...
 
AndyU said:
I don't have a problem with listening to and enjoying a "full range low distortion" concert at an opera house, concert hall, chamber music recital, cathedral, church or own home. So I reckon I do know what a full range low distortion solution might be, and the Phantoms I heard were most definitely not it. Each to his own. Notice I'll make no judgements about your preferences.
Click to expand...


I thought you wrote you have ATC speakers, so I would never assume you did not like a full range speakers and ATCs are low distortion.

However you seem to have formed a very strong antipathy to them so I am pretty sure the ones you listened to were either badly positioned or a very poor recording was playing.

I don't find mine to be massively different sounding to my recollection of ATCs which I have listened to extensively.
 
F1eng said:
It was a detailed reply but it is a precis of hifi forums not ownership experience, with all due respect...
Click to expand...

Thanks for clarifying that on my behalf, F1eng. Cheers.

For others interested, the Devialet Chat forum is a good place to read about people's good and bad experiences.


.
 
I went to listen to the silver phantoms last night..not that impressed .. bass is astoundingly impressive for the size.. and they go loud .. but refinement they aint got..
I and others found the mids and treble rather harsh.. a hendrix track I know was not listenable..
Huge treated room , round 50ft x 30ft .. and the bass pressurised the room..

Wasn't a really *fair* comparison as the 2 other speakers played in the venue were the Vivid V1.5 and the vivid Giya G3 .. in a different class...and price..especially G3

You can do a lot better for the money on conventional stuff , however what you get with the phantoms in a small package is appealing ..
 
Rodney gold said:
I went to listen to the silver phantoms last night..not that impressed .. bass is astoundingly impressive for the size.. and they go loud .. but refinement they aint got..
I and others found the mids and treble rather harsh.. a hendrix track I know was not listenable......
Click to expand...

Was it a dealer demo evening or similar?
If so, I wonder if it was a brand new pair straight out of the box, or with little use?
A common opinion seems to be, that out of the box the Phantom sounds harsh in those areas and although like most speakers, needs a period of running in, the particularly stiff drivers need a bit of a workout to loosen up.

The ones I heard were far from harsh and sounded quite refined, with only a slightly quiet and recessed treble. Cymbals were a bit subdued for example.
I did "feel" the sense of air pressure from the bass though.

I understand that the latest firmware update has toned down the bass a slight touch. Maybe F1eng can confirm?

?
 
They were almost brand new .. 3-4 days - dealer demo .. far apart from each other .. so I couldn't comment on the stereo imaging thing , the dealer had one branch stand and sited the other speaker about 20ft away on a countertop .. sounded a bit like disco speakers to me :)
 
It never ceases to amaze me that some dealers make no effort to set up equipment with any care. Bunging one speaker on a stand and another on a counter top 20 feet apart isn't going to demonstrate sod all other than the ineptitude of the dealer.
 
Rodrat said:
It never ceases to amaze me that some dealers make no effort to set up equipment with any care. Bunging one speaker on a stand and another on a counter top 20 feet apart isn't going to demonstrate sod all other than the ineptitude of the dealer.
Click to expand...

He was hosting a local hifi club meeting.. vivid Audio G3s and 1.5s and Devialet 200 as well as some HT thing
The phantoms had just arrived and werent officially included in the evenings proceedings and demos ,hence the haphazaredness..
One could still hear the overall voicing of the speaker even in that setup.

I dunno what that HT thing was called ..11 speakers at different heights in the room , not atmos.. they had a demo disc with an orchestral recording and some other stuff.. closest I have ever heard a system come to actuality
When they record they use mics high up and low and capture height info , got one speaker in the roof , called VOG ..voice of god..
Whatever , you were truly immersed in the performance and imaging was the best I ever heard.
the system we heard uses top of the range genelecs , and a dsat or datasat setup.. in a small but amazingly treated ht room
Here is a shot of the speakers in the bigger music room which sounds very good..
DSC_0626%20Medium_zpso6anxacv.jpg
 
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