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Denon DL-110 v Ortofon 2M Blue

Tried pretty much all the carts in this thread but am so happy with the AT440mlb that I can’t ever see me changing - will just buy a new stylus when this gets worn.
As it's now discontinued, has anyone compared it head to head against the replacement cart?
 
Tried pretty much all the carts in this thread but am so happy with the AT440mlb that I can’t ever see me changing - will just buy a new stylus when this gets worn.
I have heard Needle Drops of the AT and its very good!
I have downloaded a series of recordings on 9 different priced Carts including an Ortofon Anna as a reference - all blind originally
I recognised the 2M Black and Bronze on the test - I blindly chose the Nag MP300 as the best in the test. The cheap AT did extremely well too
 
I personally don't like the 2M (tried red & bronze at least), but am a big fan of the DL160 and DL110.
Both the MP150 and MP200 were mounted here for a while, they are excellent trackers, have much more detail than the Denons, but somehow miss a bit of soul for me.
Dare I say, they sounded a bit CD like?

So for me, back to Denon it is.
 
MP150 is on my list, if I can just get my head around their compliance rating and whether it actually suits my arm or not...
 
What is your arm? From what I can ascertain the newer batch of Nagaokas with the three-digit numbers are slightly lower compliance than the ‘70s MP-11, MP-50 etc to better suit modern arms, but are otherwise all but identical. They seem happy in a typical medium mass arm such as a Rega, SME, Ittok, SL-1200 etc. Medium mass equates to about 10-14g to my mind. I’ll know more when my MP-500 turns up as my pre-Improved 3009 is 12.5g. The SME actually works perfectly with the Ortofon 540/II and that is high compliance at about 25cu IIRC, but that has a far lighter cartridge body than the metal Nag so lowers mass a bit. I’d avoid it if you are running a FR64, Ortofon RMG 309 or whatever, but I think any of the Nags should be an easy match with most arms.

It may be far harder to get the capacitance right, which is 100-200pf, and given a typical arm lead is 100pf that means many phono stages will be over. I’ve altered mine to have 39pf and my arm cable, a vdH 501, is very low capacitance at around 75-80pf so I’ll be fine here. This goes for Ortofons and ATs too, they all like to see very little capacitance and way, way less than say ‘70s Shures, Stantons etc.
 
I’m getting very close to buying a MP500, everything I’ve read suggests I’d really like it. It seems a lot of dosh for an MM though!
can,t work out how to send PM on the new forum
Can send you a MP500 to try tony if required
 
What is your arm? From what I can ascertain the newer batch of Nagaokas with the three-digit numbers are slightly lower compliance than the ‘70s MP-11, MP-50 etc to better suit modern arms, but are otherwise all but identical. They seem happy in a typical medium mass arm such as a Rega, SME, Ittok, SL-1200 etc. Medium mass equates to about 10-14g to my mind. I’ll know more when my MP-500 turns up as my pre-Improved 3009 is 12.5g. The SME actually works perfectly with the Ortofon 540/II and that is high compliance at about 25cu IIRC, but that has a far lighter cartridge body than the metal Nag so lowers mass a bit. I’d avoid it if you are running a FR64, Ortofon RMG 309 or whatever, but I think any of the Nags should be an easy match with most arms.

It may be far harder to get the capacitance right, which is 100-200pf, and given a typical arm lead is 100pf that means many phono stages will be over. I’ve altered mine to have 39pf and my arm cable, a vdH 501, is very low capacitance at around 75-80pf so I’ll be fine here. This goes for Ortofons and ATs too, they all like to see very little capacitance and way, way less than say ‘70s Shures, Stantons etc.

S2 Improved fixed headshell which from reading around is 6.5g.

I'd take their suggested capacitance with a pinch of salt after reading around.

https://www.tnt-audio.com/sorgenti/nagaoka_mp11_e.html

I know it's a completely different cart, I was using it as an example of the rated capacitance against what it measured.
 
S2 Improved fixed headshell which from reading around is 6.5g.

I'd take their suggested capacitance with a pinch of salt after reading around.

https://www.tnt-audio.com/sorgenti/nagaoka_mp11_e.html

I know it's a completely different cart, I was using it as an example of the rated capacitance against what it measured.

The SME fixed shell Improved is indeed 6.5g so low mass and you may find it struggles to balance out the 8g Nagaoka body with the standard counterweight. If I was you I’d be very tempted by an Ortfon 540/II, it is a perfect match with that arm and can still be found NOS from Thakker.de for about £300 (it was replaced by the 2M Black). Styli are still available from Ortofon. I have a fixed Improved in my SME “collection” and tried the 540/II in it and it really does work well. It is a far nicer arm than people give it credit for, but you need to play to its strengths and a light high-compliance MM like the 540/II is exactly its cart demographic. It is the descendant of the VMS30 or M25FL, so exactly its type of cart.
 
As I say it is not a bad arm at all if you play to its strengths. No, not many current carts like it, but it is fine with quite a few very decent MMs. If you were to source a heavier counterweight (not cheap, sadly) you can obviously add mass at the headshell to increase the effective mass. SME actually made a whole range of counterweights for it, but they are hard to find now. I’d just play to its strengths and stick a nice Ortofon, AT or whatever in it.

Thinking about it it will balance even the 8g MP-500 and I’d forgotten you were thinking of the 150 which is 2g lighter. If you run out of weight just move the outrider weight right to the back and set tracking with a stylus scale. Looking at the spec here it is good to 7g with the standard weight, the MP-150 is 6.5g, so that will balance fine, the 8g MP-500 would require the trick I describe. Compliance we’d need to work out, but getting it wrong in this direction is better than the other IME.
 
I've had a DL110 for a few years, in an Ittok LP12, Naim standard mm boards in the 32.5. A very fine performer, no nasty traits, loads of detail, tracks well and very good from the point of surface noise etc. I have been trialing Ryan Soundlabs replacement boards for a couple of weeks. I wont hijack this thread, more details of my experiences to follow. However I will say that using RSL MM boards with the DL110 really lets it shine! More bass authority with total control and finesse exceptional soundstaging, greater detail. The cart actually sounds louder, as if there is more gain with RSL's boards. Kit Ryan assures me that the gain is exactly as per stock Naim boards. Anyone using a DL110 with a 32/42/62/72 really needs to give Kits loaner boards a try.
 
Discontinued, eh? I didn't know this. I may need a different strategy!

The ATN440MLb replacement stylus has been discontinued as well, however, the current ML stylus replacement for VM540ML and VM740ML will fit the AT440MLB body. Model designation is VMN40ML.

Unfortunately, you'll have to settle for red plastic rather than the funky purple.

I'd suggest sourcing the original, as there really is no discernable difference between AT440MLb and VM540ML (dynamic and static compliance have remained the same, however, the recommended tracking force range has been increased). I'd act fast though and try the usual on-line retailers and/or phone around a few hi-fi shops.
 
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I got the AT440MLb for my Technics 1200 in a second system but it sounds so good that it has ended up playing in my main big system. It does most things right musically and I find I enjoy the music effortlessly, playing record after record. It's also the 1st serious MM cart I've tried in a long time after many years with MC carts (Roksan, various ATs but nothing terribly expensive).

I am beginning to think that I prefer MMs; they seem so much more musical than MCs in the lower price category. I've heard some fantastic MCs but they all are too expensive for me.

I missed the highly regarded AT150MLx (that has now been discontinued as well) but I am now keen to try the AT150SA. This cart is quite expensive for an MM and retails in Japan for Y75,000, roughly the same for the Nagaoka MP500. Has any one here used one?
 
I tried Rob’s AT150MLX ages ago back when I ran a Spacedeck/Hadcock 242 and still had a very nice Dynavector P100 phono stage. It was before the days I understood just how essential capacitance is for MM carts and whilst the AT was beautifully clean and detailed, tracked end of side stunningly well (it has a very, very good tip) I couldn’t get anything but a bright and bass-less sound out of it. A real shame as it was clearly stunning in other respects.

I’m currently running a slightly tweaked Quad 34 preamp and I know where the load resistors and capacitors are on the phono board so can load it any way I want now so would no doubt get far better results from an AT, though I have to admit I associate a certain leanness with all of the AT MMs I’ve heard in any context (AT95, Linn Basik, Linn K9 etc). I just like a bigger and warmer sound. Even back in the ‘flat earth ‘80s’ I ran a Fidelity Research FR101 and a Stilton Audio MP11 Boron as I didn’t like the leanness of the K9. I actually took a divert into the terribly unfashionable low-mass high-compliance world of MMs with an AT1120 tonearm with damper and an Ortofon M25FL. That would have been a great combo if I’d had a better deck than the Ariston RD80 it was bolted to!

I’d actually like to hear a 150MLX again now I have a very low capacitance arm cable and phono stage, I’m certainly under its stated 150pf so it should sound really good.
 
The ATN440MLb replacement stylus has been discontinued as well, however, the current ML stylus replacement for VM540ML and VM740ML with fit the AT440MLB body. Model designation is VMN40ML.

Unfortunately, you'll have to settle for red plastic rather than the funky purple.

I'd suggest sourcing the original, as there really is no discernable difference between AT440MLb and VM540ML (dynamic and static compliance have remained the same, however, the recommended tracking force range has been increased). I'd act fast though and try the usual on-line retailers and/or phone around a few hi-fi shops.
The 440MLb works so well with the Technics and my phono stage that I bought two. I'm glad I did now. On clean records the micro line stylus seems to have plenty of life in it. BTW Amazon UK shows 9 in stock at £209, fulfilled by Thakker: https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B00OQUJ1QO/?tag=pinkfishmedia-21
 
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I’ve come to the conclusion that the 440 needs the right deck. I tried it with various Thorens and it was very ordinary, and I blamed the capacitance, but on a Gyro it’s really good, not that much between it and a 33ev. I guess it needs a deck that plays to its strengths, which seem to me to be detail retrieval and precise imaging.
 
The SME fixed shell Improved is indeed 6.5g so low mass and you may find it struggles to balance out the 8g Nagaoka body with the standard counterweight. If I was you I’d be very tempted by an Ortfon 540/II, it is a perfect match with that arm and can still be found NOS from Thakker.de for about £300 (it was replaced by the 2M Black). Styli are still available from Ortofon. I have a fixed Improved in my SME “collection” and tried the 540/II in it and it really does work well. It is a far nicer arm than people give it credit for, but you need to play to its strengths and a light high-compliance MM like the 540/II is exactly its cart demographic. It is the descendant of the VMS30 or M25FL, so exactly its type of cart.

Do you think swapping to a regular 12.5g 3009 would be a decent option for giving me more scope with cartridge choice?

I see they're a good piece more expensive than what I paid for my current S2 imp.
 


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