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Dedicated Mains / Memera / Roy K Riches

Hello Davech,
Just finished reading your magnificent tome, which I found extremely interesting.
I’d also be interested to read your account of how the musical presentation, dynamics, soundstage, flow, imaging of players and instruments, changed/altered with regard to the number of modifications/upgrades you made. What music/artists/ albums did you play and what impact did the new changes make to those specific albums and tracks? Does the music communicate better and is it more involving? Do you end up going to bed in the early hours because the “last” track you were going to listen too became the whole album ?
Davech, I believe it may be prudent/useful for you to start a new thread of your own using the original posting you made here, which I believe is now somewhat “lost” on page 17. I suggest this course of action because it appears from the recent replies that the contributors here are more interested in electrical minutiae, than the quality of the music.

Praise to your Electrician.
I would comment that your electrician is to be congratulated for installing the 80Amp rated 16mm2 T&E, a hand-numbing task! To my knowledge you are the first in the world to have gone this 16mm2 route. Anyway I may be able to put more of these Hi-Fi installations his way, if he is interested, as people often ask me for a qualified electrician to do this work.. Bizarrely, I’ve had recent reports of electricians who scorned & denigrated their customer and refused to install anything larger than the 32Amp rated 4mm2 T&E indicating that the whole installation is a complete waste of time and money. They are of course correct in believing the THEORY that compels them to form this view. If we were to use their THEORY and perceived logic then a single run of 1mm2 T&E lighting cable rated at 14Amps will be more than is necessary to power all the Hi-Fi? After all if one just adds up all the current rating of the Hi-Fi equipment’s internal case-fuses then this total will usually be below 14Amps and the circuits in question usually draw no more than about half that current approx - 7Amps?
From my experience & perspective a system so powered by this 1mm2 T&E would be unlistenable and normally I’d score below 3/10. Assuming a Hi-Fi system costing £10K that would equate to £7K of wasted potential.

Best regards
Roy

Hi Roy,

Great to hear from you. I was starting to wonder if this was the right forum to post on, period.

I'll do as you suggest and start a new thread. I can't resist answering some of your questions here though. I listen to a wide ranage of music, from electronic and dance, fusion, R&B, a bit of pop (though most of it leaves you feeling short-changed on emotion), lots of singer-songwriter stuff, a bit of jazz, some country, some folk and a bit of classical. There is so much beautiful music out there and there is nothing better than discovering new music that you fall in love with.

As for emotional connection with the music, it's in a different league now and I could never go back to normal mains. I'd get more sleep with normal mains, but I'd rather be tired. There is so much emotion in a female vocal to be heard now (any vocal for that matter, but I rally love great female singers) ... I always loved the beauty of Eva Cassidy's voice and understated singing style, but now I know what an talent she had for singing with deep and heartfelt emotion.

Mary Chapin Carpenter is also a breathtakingly emotional singer - she writes the music and lyrics of all her songs and every one unfolds a story, often one that builds and pulls you in deeper as it goes along. Some just carry you away completely - try her recent 'Between here & Gone' album and listen to how she sings Gand Central Station. You can't tear yourself away from that kind of singing. The musicianship of her band is fabulous as well.

And then there's Tift Merrit - try her 'Another Country' album and listen to 'Keep you happy'. She sings this with so much joy, love and pain it brings you close to tears.

And if you love incredibly beatuful but utterly unpretentious music that tells stories about the joys and miseries of life, then try Leonard Cohen. I often sit down to list to a couple of tracks from one of his albums and wind up listening to the whole thing and then another album.

To come closer to the pop end of things, try Dido's recent 'Safe Trip Home' album and listen to the last track, 'Northern Skies'. Turn it up very loud and hear a huge and vibrant soundstage that engulfs you in goreous sounds over an irresistible deep (very deep) rolling bass line that takes hold of you as the song builds. Pop it might be, but this is one of those songs that carries you away and leaves you sitting still 30 seconds after the song has faded into silence. Then you'll want to play it again.

Yes, some of this emotion was there before I did the mains, but I'd say only about 25% of the emotion I get now.

All could go on for a long time about more wonderful music, but I'm starting to rant, so I'd better go.

Bye for now.
 
DAVECH

I have convergence with Leonard Cohen, and most classical. Leonard Cohen albums, whether CD or vinyl, seem to be at the top end of the sound quality spectrum. Likewise, I tend to listen to one track, and end up when the disc finishes, regardlless of format.
 
Hi Mike,

Yep, I only have CDs but I agree, Loenard Cohen albums do seem to be beatufully recorded - a very natural, un-processed sound that is both warm and full of life.

I feel a bit like I lost touch with classical music - I probably only have 40 odd classical CDs these days (had lots on CD and vinyl a few hundred years ago when I was a student).

I used to listen to lots of live classical music when I was at college, as we were right next door to the Royal College of Music and I had some good friends who were studying there. I would often go to three performances a week, both at the RCM and at professional venues and I really miss that now.

Strangely, going to performances at the RCM in my early twenties was what got me into hi-fi in the first place. The defining moment was early in my first year when I went I saw the RCM Sinfonietta play Sibelius's Valse Triste and I was stunned by the spread of three-dimensional, warm and beautiful sound in front of me. I think I've been searching for that ever since.


I see a bit of live music, but very little live classical these days. So I want to see more live classical and I really want to build my collection of classical back up. More beauty and emotion than you can shake a stick at there ... :)

Cheers
Dave
 
Dear Roy your message box is full up - I would love to receive a set of your dedicated mains documents if they are still available.
 
Clemburt

A hard wired Beast is a power chord that Roy makes himself and it is hard wired (no plug) straight into a dedicated consumer unit
 
There are many setups of Roy's depending on where people are at within there home / system and what they can and can't do. Roy no longer bothers trying to convince people of the benefits of 'doing the mains' those that have done it know... and those that haven't just talk about how it won't make a difference. He doesn't bother with the forums any longer. I've recently e-mailed Roy if I get a reply I'll ask if people can e-mail him to get his details.

John
 
I missed out on the flak altogether and when I came back he was gorn - however he was a champion sort of chap - keen on his choosen questions - but v kind
 
Clemburt

A hard wired Beast is a power chord that Roy makes himself and it is hard wired (no plug) straight into a dedicated consumer unit

Bit unusual (but not unheard of) to hard wire straight to c.u. More likely hard wired to 100 amp connection block inside a pattress which is connected to a t & e cable which is then connected to a c. u.

Roy's 'Beasts' were 6mm2 copper twisted a la Kimber. Stiffer than rigor mortis, they:) are.

NB Why on Earth, after nearly a year, has someone exhumed this thread??????????
 
Because I found it by chance today trying to find suggestions on how to wire up for some new Meridian kit! So while I'm here, is the consensus that a radial approach with a dedicated wire for each outlet is better than a separate ring-main as recommeded elsewhere?
 
Because I found it by chance today trying to find suggestions on how to wire up for some new Meridian kit! So while I'm here, is the consensus that a radial approach with a dedicated wire for each outlet is better than a separate ring-main as recommeded elsewhere?

Not sure that you'll get a "consensus" because some of the Pommies who frequent PFF are wrapt in their antiquated 'ring' setups. But I think you'll find every other country in the world uses 'radial' circuits. :p

A dedicated wire from an MCP in the Consumer Unit to each wall-socket certainly is the ultimate, AIUI. However, IMO you can gain nearly all the advantages of this, from having 3 or 4 circuits - in my case:
* 1 for analogue sources (eg. preamp, phono stage)
* 1 for digital sources (CDP and TT PS
* 1 for power amp (or in my case, 1 for each channel).

And Roy's recommendation is to have all the wires the same length - so there are no earth potential differences at the wall-sockets.

What is important is to use the thickest mains wire you can get hold of (to give you minimum voltage drop along the wire). In Oz, for domestic situations, that is 32a mains wiring - which I think has an area of 6 sq mm.

Regards,

Andy
 
Not sure that you'll get a "consensus" because some of the Pommies who frequent PFF are wrapt in their antiquated 'ring' setups. But I think you'll find every other country in the world uses 'radial' circuits. :p

A dedicated wire from an MCP in the Consumer Unit to each wall-socket certainly is the ultimate, AIUI. However, IMO you can gain nearly all the advantages of this, from having 3 or 4 circuits - in my case:
* 1 for analogue sources (eg. preamp, phono stage)
* 1 for digital sources (CDP and TT PS
* 1 for power amp (or in my case, 1 for each channel).

And Roy's recommendation is to have all the wires the same length - so there are no earth potential differences at the wall-sockets.

What is important is to use the thickest mains wire you can get hold of (to give you minimum voltage drop along the wire). In Oz, for domestic situations, that is 32a mains wiring - which I think has an area of 6 sq mm.

Regards,

Andy

Could be to do with our earthing too... isn't radial a ring?

post 121 shows my setup as I installed it back then
http://www.pinkfishmedia.net/forum/showpost.php?p=419985&postcount=121

The cable what was quite thick yes.
 
Could be to do with our earthing too... isn't radial a ring?

"Radial" means a wire from the MCB in the Consumer Unit to a string of wall-sockets. It ends at the final wall-socket.

A "ring", AIUI, ends where it started - at the MCB. :)

Regards,

Andy
 
"Radial" means a wire from the MCB in the Consumer Unit to a string of wall-sockets. It ends at the final wall-socket.

A "ring", AIUI, ends where it started - at the MCB. :)

Regards,

Andy

Ah ok.. well we used to have radial tyres and as tyres are round I thought they were the same thing :)

In the UK we call a 'radial' that a "spur" which is what I have from the point of entry into the house > henley block > LARGE spur to rear of hifi > CU > dedicated 'spurs' into each piece of kit via a RCBO (if I remember correctly)... the bedroom system has the old electric shower 'spur' extended into the bedroom via a 15 amp socket into a star spurred extention cable thingy...

Both sound good.
 
Ah ok.. well we used to have radial tyres and as tyres are round I thought they were the same thing :)

In the UK we call a 'radial' that a "spur" which is what I have from the point of entry into the house > henley block > LARGE spur to rear of hifi > CU > dedicated 'spurs' into each piece of kit via a RCBO (if I remember correctly)... the bedroom system has the old electric shower 'spur' extended into the bedroom via a 15 amp socket into a star spurred extention cable thingy...

Both sound good.

Just to clear things up.

A SPUR is a cable which is joined onto another circuit. In this country that's usually taken from behind a socket or spliced into a ring via a connector. Look up 'spur' in a dictionary.

A RADIAL circuit 'radiates', like spokes in a wheel, heat from a single source or sound from a single source. It doesn't have to have anything on it to be a radial circuit!

The radial will be attached to a single element/section of the consumer unit, with a mini contact breaker, plus, usually, a residual current device (???), either separately or combined with the MCB as an RCBO.

A decent radial circuit, especially one with a twin & earth cable size of 6mm2 or above, beats any other form of sourcing mains electricity within a domestic situation, i.m.o. Unfortunately, not everyone can avail themselves of this upgrade.
 


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