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Decca cartridges

Thanks Charlie.
I was just curious to know if you had tried it on the Schröder. I remember buying a C4E from Glen Croft about 30 years ago when I was running a Koetsu Black and a Red. It was quite a surprise at the time and I seem to remember it cost me £40...
 
topoxforddoc said:
Mike,

A very small world. I worked in that shop between 79-81 as the saturday boy. I got my appreciation of Deccas and valves from KK. My Garrott Bros Gold, Maroon and Hadcock came from that shop.

As for the tonearms. I think you may be right. The first tonearm was the FFSS with a rectangular shaped counterweight. Later came the International with an inverted unipivot. I think that spawned more than one model, but I can't remember how many versions there were. Will need to check.

Charlie
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Yup. Pretty sure my first Decca arm (in about '66/67) was the FFSS, and it was a pig to cue; especially on the Thorens TD150 (sprung deck).

I had just left Christchurch when you were working there; I imagine you might have been native to that city.
 
Mike Reed said:
Yup. Pretty sure my first Decca arm (in about '66/67) was the FFSS, and it was a pig to cue; especially on the Thorens TD150 (sprung deck).

I had just left Christchurch when you were working there; I imagine you might have been native to that city.
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Mike,

I was born in Canterbury. My Dad owned the chinese restaurant Hop Kweng in St Margaret's St opposite the old Marlowe theatre.

Charlie
 
Gosh this is all very familiar, I used to work on Church St (St.Pauls) - opp Burgate on other side of Bridge St. Used to see KK browsing in WH Smith regularly. He is quite scary. I also sold some Nagra kit to his best mate. It's a small world.
 
badger748 said:
Gosh this is all very familiar, I used to work on Church St (St.Pauls) - opp Burgate on other side of Bridge St. Used to see KK browsing in WH Smith regularly. He is quite scary. I also sold some Nagra kit to his best mate. It's a small world.
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Maybe there should be a separate Hi-Fi cult for those coming from Canterbury!
 
topoxforddoc said:
I haven’t heard either the original Decca International or the later Decca arms. I remember there being an old stock item in Canterbury Hi-Fi, when I worked there in the late 70s. But I never listened to it. I bought the Hadcock instead!
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A FFSS arm and cart has just appeared on teh eBays here in appropriate vintage context (nothing to do with me, just linking as it's a nice looking example). I bet that's a damn fine deck assuming it's possible to service it to something close to as-new condition. No one ever mentions the Connoisseur idlers, but IIRC that one cost more than a 301 in it's day.
 
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I've recently come into a few Deccas. A C4E that looks like it was hit with a flamethrower, but is supposed to be in good shape sonically (and supposedly converted to SC4E, though I have no way to confirm), a London Gold that needs a retip, and a London Green 78rpm cart that looks mint. All three are off to JW next week for assessment and refurb as needed.

Still not sure what arm to put them on though. I have a Morch UP4 that needs refurb, which ticks the damped unipivot box; a massive FR64S which might be enough to handle them, and an older Terminator. I'm starting to think the latter might be the answer, but I'm not sure how I'll be able to fit it in the lineup.

Those three-speed Connoisseurs have developed a small following. I suspect the EBay item will go for a decent price. I have a Connie Craftsman III which is OK, but not quite to the build of the earlier ones (or the Garrards, to be honest).
 
I'm not such a big fan of the Decca, although they are certainly interesting. What they do illustrate is that moving coils are not the only choice. There has been too little investment in alternative technologies.
I know a guy who may sell as many high-end moving coil cartridges as anyone in the UK; privately he thinks most of them pretty poor. I know one US manufacturer of very, very expensive decks, who refuses to recommend any MCs...he prefers moving-iron cartridges (Soundsmith). If only some real investment had gone into the positive scan technique, the moving-iron, the mm and those strain gauge devices. Sadly, the markets probably too small now.
 
Tony L said:
A FFSS arm and cart has just appeared on teh eBays here in appropriate vintage context (nothing to do with me, just linking as it's a nice looking example). I bet that's a damn fine deck assuming it's possible to service it to something close to as-new condition. No one ever mentions the Connoisseur idlers, but IIRC that one cost more than a 301 in it's day.
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Yes, a quick perusal of a 1964 Gramophone gives £22.0.0 for a 301 and £22.19.6 for the Connoisseur.
 
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paskinn said:
I'm not such a big fan of the Decca, although they are certainly interesting. What they do illustrate is that moving coils are not the only choice. There has been too little investment in alternative technologies.
I know a guy who may sell as many high-end moving coil cartridges as anyone in the UK; privately he thinks most of them pretty poor. I know one US manufacturer of very, very expensive decks, who refuses to recommend any MCs...he prefers moving-iron cartridges (Soundsmith). If only some real investment had gone into the positive scan technique, the moving-iron, the mm and those strain gauge devices. Sadly, the markets probably too small now.
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The Soundsmith moving iron cartridges are reverse-engineered Bang and Olufsen MMC units.
He wanted to buy the tooling from B&O but they had destroyed it, so copied one.
Soundsmith will rebuild B&O cartridges also, I believe.
 
F1eng said:
The Soundsmith moving iron cartridges are reverse-engineered Bang and Olufsen MMC units.
He wanted to buy the tooling from B&O but they had destroyed it, so copied one.
Soundsmith will rebuild B&O cartridges also, I believe.
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I think the company started with re-tipping/building B&O cartridges in the USA and I think that is still supported. They have a range of their own cartridges now.
I'm not sure what is meant by 'serious investment' but IMO anyone thinking of buying a top-level cartridge must hear the Strain Gauge. Especially if they have not already invested too much in a phono stage/preamp.
 
Another oddball cartridge type is the Stax electret one.

I've heard one; it sounded inoffensive, but I heard it in an unfamiliar system, so it was hard to compare with anything I knew. I think it worked into a MM input; I don't remember there being any special electronics required.

The Technics low output MM could sound excellent too, and needed an MC amplification chain.
 
PigletsDad said:
Another oddball cartridge type is the Stax electret one.

I've heard one; it sounded inoffensive, but I heard it in an unfamiliar system, so it was hard to compare with anything I knew. I think it worked into a MM input; I don't remember there being any special electronics required.

The Technics low output MM could sound excellent too, and needed an MC amplification chain.
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The Technics 205 was marvellous, if that's the one you are referring to. Shame such beasties got culled. I think the technique used in the Decca also appeared in the Ikeda didn't it? I'd love to hear a strain gauge cartridge, but they aren't exactly two a penny.
 
Im using a London Decca Gold ATM. I had a listen to an 2M black and a Nagaoka mp 500 at the same time and the Decca Gold was the clear winner. Is Stunning.
 
Pete (I should Coco) has one of the Panasonic Strain Gauge cartridges. Although you don't use it with an RIAA stage it does need some mild eq to give a flat response. It does have exceptional bandwidth which is why they were developed in conjunction with/for Quadrophonic LPs as I understood it. It sounds very refined.

An oddity I use is a moving coil design but with an electromagnet rather than a permanent magnet. The arm requires 2 extra wires & it is powered by a 25Ah Yuasa battery. It was first made by Audio Note in Japan in the early 80's.

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I still have a blue, and I used a gold for many years... In many ways, my life since then has been a search for the same magic in a cartridge that is easier to live with.
A few observations:
In the 80s the QC on Deccas was a bit iffy... I tried several golds before I found one that tracked well, bad ones were really bad. The gold was a bit more shrill than the blue, but the really great one was the maroon, not sure why or what spec it was now.
Guy Lamotte, the designer of the Naim ARO, used to put the Decca arm onto Linn Lp12s and get the most amazing results, and the Decca arm was really cheap.
I used my blue and gold in an Audio craft AC300 arm that had variable silicone damping, but also variable vta at the same time, and you really need to get vta right with any Decca.
The gold worked really well in an ittok! It also works fine into a Naim K MC input too!
I'm still searching but I reckon that my ESCO/Zu DL103 does everything the Decca did, without the downsides.
Strangely I've never tried a Decca in my ARO!
 
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