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DAC needed...bang for buck

Good to know - I've pushed my Chord Mojo up to my son who's using it as a headphone amp - I never really did try it out seriously in my main system - this has inspired me to give it a blast.

It will be going head to head with a Metrum Octave mk2 ... but seeing as your little Mojo gave the Denafrips a good run for its money (and as you know the Denafrips has glowing reviews all round) ... then perhaps the Octave should stand aside and let the Mojo take centre stage for a bit.

Would be interesting to see what you think. I got a decent 3.5mm to RCA Atlas cable at a good price to connect the Mojo to the amp and it just seemed to click sound wise. It just sounds very analogue to me, for a DAC
 
I tried numerous Chinese dacs, ended up with the smsl m400 but was mighty impressed by the ak chip topping e30. Preferred it to higher priced toppings and in many ways the gustard x16 too.

Cant really go wrong, buy try, sell on if you need to
 
I tried numerous Chinese dacs, ended up with the smsl m400 but was mighty impressed by the ak chip topping e30. Preferred it to higher priced toppings and in many ways the gustard x16 too.

Cant really go wrong, buy try, sell on if you need to

I believe there are only two DACs in the Topping line which use the AKM chips, the D70S and E30. The E30 has the AK4493 chip whilst the D70S has dual AK4497 chips. The rest of the DACs which include the top-of-the-range D90SE utilise the Sabre ESS chips.
 
Ak based D70s was too shrill for my ears , e30 lacks the detail of the higher priced models but overall, for me, a more enjoyable listen
 
Two optical inputs is the biggest challenge, young mk1 dac with two coax inputs is very good at circa £300
 
Ak based D70s was too shrill for my ears , e30 lacks the detail of the higher priced models but overall, for me, a more enjoyable listen

That's interesting. I was made to understand that DACs with AKM chips AK44xx tend to sound warmer and more natural whilst DACs with Sabre ESS chips will sound leaner and more detailed, possibly brighter at the top. It's a generalisation but having owned a device with a built-in Sabre ESS chip, I tend to avoid DACs with ESS chips these days. I do not have experience with DACs that come with AKM chips though.

I've spent some time reading up on Topping DACs specifically the D70S. It was said to sound more natural with a less brighter or shrill treble than the top model A90SE which happens to be the costliest Topping DAC. The D70S was said to sound smoother at the top than the D90SE. Some folks prefer the sound quality of the D70s while few prefer the D90SE, while an owner who owns both can't tell them apart. Many factors at play here. It's good to note that the E30 is capable of better performance than the higher-priced models in your system. This just shows that it's all system dependent.

The D70S ticks a lot of boxes for me as it has balanced outputs and can take a full-sized power cord. With the Chord, only the DAVE has these features but it costs more than 10x the Topping.
 
That's interesting. I was made to understand that DACs with AKM chips AK44xx tend to sound warmer and more natural whilst DACs with Sabre ESS chips will sound leaner and more detailed, possibly brighter at the top. It's a generalisation but having owned a device with a built-in Sabre ESS chip, I tend to avoid DACs with ESS chips these days. I do not have experience with DACs that come with AKM chips though.

I've spent some time reading up on Topping DACs specifically the D70S. It was said to sound more natural with a less brighter or shrill treble than the top model A90SE which happens to be the costliest Topping DAC. The D70S was said to sound smoother at the top than the D90SE. Some folks prefer the sound quality of the D70s while few prefer the D90SE, while an owner who owns both can't tell them apart. Many factors at play here. It's good to note that the E30 is capable of better performance than the higher-priced models in your system. This just shows that it's all system dependent.

The D70S ticks a lot of boxes for me as it has balanced outputs and can take a full-sized power cord. With the Chord, only the DAVE has these features but it costs more than 10x the Topping.
I think Topping dacs are highly regarded by ASR...if that's not a reason to avoid them..then what is?
 
That's interesting. I was made to understand that DACs with AKM chips AK44xx tend to sound warmer and more natural whilst DACs with Sabre ESS chips will sound leaner and more detailed, possibly brighter at the top. It's a generalisation but having owned a device with a built-in Sabre ESS chip, I tend to avoid DACs with ESS chips these days. I do not have experience with DACs that come with AKM chips though.

I've spent some time reading up on Topping DACs specifically the D70S. It was said to sound more natural with a less brighter or shrill treble than the top model A90SE which happens to be the costliest Topping DAC. The D70S was said to sound smoother at the top than the D90SE. Some folks prefer the sound quality of the D70s while few prefer the D90SE, while an owner who owns both can't tell them apart. Many factors at play here. It's good to note that the E30 is capable of better performance than the higher-priced models in your system. This just shows that it's all system dependent.

The D70S ticks a lot of boxes for me as it has balanced outputs and can take a full-sized power cord. With the Chord, only the DAVE has these features but it costs more than 10x the Topping.
IMO the AKM = natural and ESS = bright is just folklore like glass shelves and silver cables all sounding too shrill/bright.

When AKM chips dried up RME swapped to ESS and nobody has complained that DAC is now too bright, it’s all about implementation and the complete package - power supply and analogue stage. RME add/load the filters the AKM has that the ESS doesn’t have in real time using their software/firmware and reckon the 2 versions sound the same.

I thought the D90 was a decent DAC but lacking as a Pre, I much preferred the Matrix Sabre Pro - admitedly more money but not that far away buying used, build quality is head and shoulders above the usual ASR suspects. It ticks your boxes, normal mains inlet and balanced XLR out.
https://www.matrix-digi.com/en/products/319.html

 
I'm following this thread with great interest as I'm also potentially in the market for a good value DAC.

I'm currently trialling Apple Music, using an E30 Topping DAC on loan from a friend, with an iPhone connected directly (Apple camera adaptor, USB cable) into the DAC to access high res. And I'm wondering how much I'd have to spend over the value of the E30 to get a decent worthwhile increase in performance?
 
That's interesting. I was made to understand that DACs with AKM chips AK44xx tend to sound warmer and more natural whilst DACs with Sabre ESS chips will sound leaner and more detailed, possibly brighter at the top. It's a generalisation but having owned a device with a built-in Sabre ESS chip, I tend to avoid DACs with ESS chips these days. I do not have experience with DACs that come with AKM chips though.

I've spent some time reading up on Topping DACs specifically the D70S. It was said to sound more natural with a less brighter or shrill treble than the top model A90SE which happens to be the costliest Topping DAC. The D70S was said to sound smoother at the top than the D90SE. Some folks prefer the sound quality of the D70s while few prefer the D90SE, while an owner who owns both can't tell them apart. Many factors at play here. It's good to note that the E30 is capable of better performance than the higher-priced models in your system. This just shows that it's all system dependent.

The D70S ticks a lot of boxes for me as it has balanced outputs and can take a full-sized power cord. With the Chord, only the DAVE has these features but it costs more than 10x the Topping.

My D70s doesn't sound 'shrill' at all. The original D70 was supposed to sound bass light, so maybe people are getting confused with model numbers? Or it could be that a lot of speakers have a ramped up treble, and the flat response of the D70s is highlighting this?

I suppose it could be any part of the signal chain causing the problem, it's easy to put the blame on a certain component, not knowing that the problem lies elsewhere. Recently I was using a Rotel RB850 in place of my broken Quad 306. Initially I thought it was quite a nice amp, but after using it for a while it started to annoy me with a brash midrange. I sent it back and kept a cheaper Denon PMA-350SE. Once my 306 was fixed, I put that back and the sound became even smoother in the midrange (In a good way).
 
IMO the AKM = natural and ESS = bright is just folklore like glass shelves and silver cables all sounding too shrill/bright.

When AKM chips dried up RME swapped to ESS and nobody has complained that DAC is now too bright, it’s all about implementation and the complete package - power supply and analogue stage. RME add/load the filters the AKM has that the ESS doesn’t have in real time using their software/firmware and reckon the 2 versions sound the same.

I thought the D90 was a decent DAC but lacking as a Pre, I much preferred the Matrix Sabre Pro - admitedly more money but not that far away buying used, build quality is head and shoulders above the usual ASR suspects. It ticks your boxes, normal mains inlet and balanced XLR out.
https://www.matrix-digi.com/en/products/319.html


Yes, I am aware the type of DAC chip forms a small part of the equation as there are other aspects (which you have aptly explained) which complete the whole package.

The Matrix Sabre Pro looks pretty good. Not in a hurry and won't rush into anything at this point but it's good to have another candidate.
 
My D70s doesn't sound 'shrill' at all. The original D70 was supposed to sound bass light, so maybe people are getting confused with model numbers? Or it could be that a lot of speakers have a ramped up treble, and the flat response of the D70s is highlighting this?

I suppose it could be any part of the signal chain causing the problem, it's easy to put the blame on a certain component, not knowing that the problem lies elsewhere. Recently I was using a Rotel RB850 in place of my broken Quad 306. Initially I thought it was quite a nice amp, but after using it for a while it started to annoy me with a brash midrange. I sent it back and kept a cheaper Denon PMA-350SE. Once my 306 was fixed, I put that back and the sound became even smoother in the midrange (In a good way).

Yes, the D70S was reported to be quite an improvement over the original D70. It was the D90SE that was labelled as bright, not the D70S although the latter is comparatively brighter in sound than say the Denafrips Ares 2. Most people who tried the D70S find it to be a good DAC at its price point.
 
Choices choices...

I think my purchase will come down to either a very cheap unit to tide me over e.g. Topping E30 as mentioned earlier until funds allow the likes of the Qutest.
Otherwise a low/middle ground unit like the SMSL 500MKII and hope it's good enough. My only other DAC is USB only unfortunately...


Putting the question another way, of the DACS that have been recommended so far, which if any, would comfortably outperform the DAC in my Meridian 506.24? (Via coax)
 
Choices choices...

I think my purchase will come down to either a very cheap unit to tide me over e.g. Topping E30 as mentioned earlier until funds allow the likes of the Qutest.
Otherwise a low/middle ground unit like the SMSL 500MKII and hope it's good enough. My only other DAC is USB only unfortunately...


Putting the question another way, of the DACS that have been recommended so far, which if any, would comfortably outperform the DAC in my Meridian 506.24? (Via coax)
Doubt it..I had a old audio alchemy dac and used it for streaming via my schiit eitr...fantastic..48 kHz? Who cares...the sound it produced didn't..
 
By the way, it's not the measurements of the dac which are important..its what the dac sounds like which is the most important thing.
Imagine actually listening to a dac..I wonder if the amateur sleuths at ASR ever listen to the equipment they test?
 
I believe there are only two DACs in the Topping line which use the AKM chips, the D70S and E30. The E30 has the AK4493 chip whilst the D70S has dual AK4497 chips. The rest of the DACs which include the top-of-the-range D90SE utilise the Sabre ESS chips.
The Topping D30Pro uses quad Cirrus Logic CS43198 DAC chips.
TS
 


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