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D&D 8c vs ATC SCM100ASL vs Grimm LS1be - live online comparison

These professionals don't seem much different to us amateurs.
Can't see any reason to trust their judgment any more (or less) than anyone else's.
 
Just listened to this in HD on Youtube directly into my system. Biggest takeaway for me was that with the D&D and ATC speakers there was noticeable bass bloom which sounded like a room interaction or reflection off the front wall. The Grimm speakers seemed to avoid this and therefore sounded the most accurate - in fact I thought they sounded very much like a Naim speaker with very tight detailed bass :)
The way they were listening in a large studio room with wooden floor seemed more like a home environment than a mixing studio that I would have thought these systems were aimed at?
 
As far as I can tell the test tracks were (artist-album-song):
Jacques Loussier - My Personal Favorites: The Jacques Loussier Trio Plays Bach - Little Fugue in G minor
John Mayar - Continuum - Vultures
James Blake - James Blake - Limit To Your Love
James Taylor - Greatest Hits 2019 Remaster - Fire & Rain
Jon Hopkins - Everything Connected - Everything Connected
Dire Straits - Brothers In Arms - Your Latest Trick
Dead Can Dance - Anastasis - Anabasis
Opera Song ???
Maybe someone can enlighten us on the last 1? I was impressed by Fire & Rain and Little Fugue in G minor. I already have Continuum and love it.
 
Interesting digital vs analogue reflections (and reactions) wrt the D&D and ATCs. More visceral response.

The Grimms seemed on another level - even/albeit through youtube etc.
 
OldSkool said:
Just listened to this in HD on Youtube directly into my system. Biggest takeaway for me was that with the D&D and ATC speakers there was noticeable bass bloom which sounded like a room interaction or reflection off the front wall. The Grimm speakers seemed to avoid this and therefore sounded the most accurate - in fact I thought they sounded very much like a Naim speaker with very tight detailed bass :)
The way they were listening in a large studio room with wooden floor seemed more like a home environment than a mixing studio that I would have thought these systems were aimed at?
Click to expand...

as I sit here infringing my Dutch & Dutch 8c’s I can confirm there is zero bass bloom. Maybe they didn’t have them set up properly?
 
Knipester said:
as I sit here infringing my Dutch & Dutch 8c’s I can confirm there is zero bass bloom. Maybe they didn’t have them set up properly?
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I think the presenter on the left said that D&D had set them up - Martian Mensink was listening to the stream as he made some remarks in the comments section, but didn’t mention anything about poor set up.

edited to add: yep, one of Mensinks comments was “Comparing speakers based on in-room recordings. I have to admit I was skeptical. But you can clearly hear the differences between the speakers! Kudos to Alpha Audio for this!”

He surely would have said if the set up was off.
 
The nice thing about the D&D is you can tweak the response if it is not to your taste. Not possible with the ATCs.
 
Knipester said:
as I sit here infringing my Dutch & Dutch 8c’s I can confirm there is zero bass bloom. Maybe they didn’t have them set up properly?
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I thought the same, and also that recording it will have added something, also...

Re an earlier comment - I’ve owned Naim speakers, and would suggest that until you’ve had the listening room measured, then...

If you have, and still like what they do, then all is good. There is more than one way to listen to music.
 
Dozey said:
The nice thing about the D&D is you can tweak the response if it is not to your taste. Not possible with the ATCs.
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There is a 0 > +6dB bass shelf eq on ATCs, I have a couple of dBs on my 50s. But I agree, most active pro monitors have much more in the way of on board adjustment. I would really like to hear the 8Cs ! I like the idea of these modern speakers.
 
AndyU said:
I think the presenter on the left said that D&D had set them up - Martian Mensink was listening to the stream as he made some remarks in the comments section, but didn’t mention anything about poor set up.

edited to add: yep, one of Mensinks comments was “Comparing speakers based on in-room recordings. I have to admit I was skeptical. But you can clearly hear the differences between the speakers! Kudos to Alpha Audio for this!”

He surely would have said if the set up was off.
Click to expand...
D&D speakers designed by a Martian! :D
 
tedmanzie said:
There is a 0 > +6dB bass shelf eq on ATCs, I have a couple of dBs on my 50s. But I agree, most active pro monitors have much more in the way of on board adjustment. I would really like to hear the 8Cs ! I like the idea of these modern speakers.
Click to expand...
I'd have liked the ATC's to come out on top as I thought they were sublime on drums in a demo, but listening to the samples and the expert reaction it's clear the Grimms are in a different league. I like that the ATC's don't have DSP as IMHO this is best done separately (SOC principle) and with a separate DAC high res formats are not limited as per D&D/Kii. It's good to know the ATC's have bass lift. Is this just on the Pro versions?
BTW the web site has been updated with a better write up and test track samples for each speaker.
 
jamjar784 said:
I'd have liked the ATC's to come out on top as I thought they were sublime on drums in a demo, but listening to the samples and the expert reaction it's clear the Grimms are in a different league. I like that the ATC's don't have DSP as IMHO this is best done separately (SOC principle) and with a separate DAC high res formats are not limited as per D&D/Kii. It's good to know the ATC's have bass lift. Is this just on the Pro versions?
BTW the web site has been updated with a better write up and test track samples for each speaker.
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Regarding bass lift - it’s on the pros only.
 
tuga said:
Did you learn that from a youtube video?
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Well - comparatively yes! At least the Grimm setup didn't exhibit this trait. I'm not familiar with the Grimm speakers but they seem to have a separate bass enclosure which looks like its maybe upward firing - maybe less interaction with the room walls? It could also have something to do with the Mics used to record the video or their positioning of course.

I've watched many of the "Pursuit of Perfect System" videos on Youtube where he uses a very well treated room and often room correction, on his videos the sound is usually very close to just playing the same recording direct into my system i.e. very little obvious room boost or cut of different frequencies.
I was just surprised with this demo that as these are meant to be "monitoring" loudspeakers that the room was so audible, I would have thought in a professional studio they would normally try and take more care of this, in other words this demo wasn't realistic of a normal studio monitoring environment?

Don't get me wrong, I actually found the ATC's the most enjoyable :)
 
OldSkool said:
Well - comparatively yes! At least the Grimm setup didn't exhibit this trait. I'm not familiar with the Grimm speakers but they seem to have a separate bass enclosure which looks like its maybe upward firing - maybe less interaction with the room walls? It could also have something to do with the Mics used to record the video or their positioning of course.

I've watched many of the "Pursuit of Perfect System" videos on Youtube where he uses a very well treated room and often room correction, on his videos the sound is usually very close to just playing the same recording direct into my system i.e. very little obvious room boost or cut of different frequencies.
I was just surprised with this demo that as these are meant to be "monitoring" loudspeakers that the room was so audible, I would have thought in a professional studio they would normally try and take more care of this, in other words this demo wasn't realistic of a normal studio monitoring environment?

Don't get me wrong, I actually found the ATC's the most enjoyable :)
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I thought the room sounded pretty nice, and although it was a live room used for recording rather than playback, there was a fair amount of treatment. There was no obvious boom on their voices, which sounded natural, and they weren’t close miked; when the guy clapped it wasn’t super dead, but I couldn’t hear much echo either so the RT60 seemed pretty good - better than most living rooms. In fact there is a comment from Martijn Mensink where he says the RT60 is about 0.3 and very constant with frequency. So a nice room. You could just see the actual control room - and a bit of a PMC speaker - in the background of some shots.
 
Alastair said:
Regarding bass lift - it’s on the pros only.
Click to expand...

I thought all the actives had the same same amps, whether they were 'classic series' (wood finish) or 'pro' - but never seen round the back of classics so I'm not sure. They are ridiculously fiddly to adjust anyway, which I expect is partly because they don't want anyone to adjust it :)
 
I’ve seen some pics of older pro series with a knob on the rear to adjust I’m guessing the bass level. Later models appear to have the knob deleted but may still have access to a pot on the board but I haven’t seen a close enough pic.

Check out 1.26

 
tedmanzie said:
I thought all the actives had the same same amps, whether they were 'classic series' (wood finish) or 'pro' - but never seen round the back of classics so I'm not sure. They are ridiculously fiddly to adjust anyway, which I expect is partly because they don't want anyone to adjust it :)
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The amplifier packs in my current-model consumer SCM50ASL classics have two holes giving screwdriver access to pre-set-type potentiometers. One is for trimming the gain and one for trimming the bass. I think current professional versions also have this (I have seen this in photographs).

The pre-sets are, indeed, probably meant to be "adjust-and-forget" on installation and not for frequent knob-twiddling, so it seems appropriate to do it this way.

I haven't needed the bass trim yet. Perhaps I would in a different room. The bass response with the 50ASLs placed 0.9 metres away from the front wall in my current room is remarkably extended without any excess, probably with just a small amount of room gain. Based on this experience, in the video I was surprised to see the 100ASLs placed so close to the front wall. I think that may have brought in more room gain in the bass and I think that was what I heard compared to the other (equalized) loudspeakers.
 
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