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D&D 8c vs ATC SCM100ASL vs Grimm LS1be - live online comparison

AndyU

pfm Member
Alpha Audio have just run a live online comparison of these three speakers in a good studio with interesting comments by some engineers/producers. Very much worth watching and listening to on headphones, though it does go on rather too long. Surprising how much of the differences you can pick up.

https://alpha-audio.net/2020/10/live-multitest-high-end-studio-monitors/

It starts 7 minutes in.
 
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Very interesting - thanks! Even through headphones you can hear some of the magic! Here's a bit of detail from the video.

Gear on test:
dCS Rossini DAC £19k5
D&D 8c £10k95
ATC SCM100A SL Pro £14k
Grimm LS1be £27k

Comment (aside, not tested) for mastering/editing JBL is excellent but coloured in bass, PMC best compromise tool.

24 mins D&D 8c John Mayar - Vultures: chorus 2 layer under, vocal compressor ss's and t's, mellow/timid
33 mins D&D 8c James Taylor - Fire & Rain: good vocals, tom toms

54 mins ATC SCM100A Pro Jacques Couchet ?: warmer, in the room, more natural, bass has punch but muddy versus 8c, analogue v digital, noticed mistakes from musicians
61 mins ATC SCM100A Pro James Blake - Limit To Your Love: sounds big, very precise bass, excellent rim shots
66 mins ATC SCM100A Pro James Taylor - Fire & Rain: more natural, excellent transients (drums), excellent instruments, vocals not as good 8c
74 mins ATC SCM100A Jon Hopkins - Everything Connected: huge soundstage, kick drum attack
87 mins ATC SCM100A John Mayar - Vultures: ATC bass coloured but really good, natural, musical, good value compared to other rivals

105 mins Grimm LS1be £27k latest model with new DSP (data path of 48 bits wide with a 76-bit accumulator), 2x 180W Class D Hypex NCore and 400W subwoofer with motion servo, 20 Hz - 27 kHz +0.5dB/-3dB, with LS1i USB interface: 44.1 - 384 kHz ('DXD'), DSD64 and DSD128
108 mins Grimm LS1be John Mayar - Vultures: guitar details LHS, this is how snare should sound, ATC more muscle, Grimm more transparent, clean vocals, room filling
115 mins Grimm LS1be James Taylor - Fire & Rain: body of LHS guitar, vocals, jaw dropping
121 mins Grimm LS1be Jacques Couchet ?: crazy good, doesn't have same weight in bass as ATC so not for dance, but 8c's can compete with them
121 mins Grimm LS1be Dire Straits - Your Latest Trick: natural, clean vocals, so transparent recording flaws in drum and bass apparent
140 mins Grimm LS1be Dead Can Dance

Final comments:
D&D: very good for price, detail, punchy, energetic, natural
ATC: big sound, lot of fun, not most natural of 3, magical mid, debatable for studio depends on music genre
Grimm: different league, overwhelming details
 
Thanks Andy, watched it on catch up.

All very good, though I think the ATC would get my money, they played Jon Hopkins - Everything Connected, at 1hr 22m 30s (ish) I imagine they sounded amazing in the room, very impressive.
 
Interesting report, but not a single classical music track and one of the chaps had a very strong ATC bias.
 
Scanned through this as there is no way I would watch other people listening to music for 2.5 hrs.
Seems to me that they were all in agreement that the ATC's were fun, but the least accurate. D&D's great value. The Grimms despite costing 3x more were unanimously 'in a different league' to the others, and the most impressive by far.
I am particularly interested in this as I have owned a pair of the Grimms, and, like these gentleman, found them to be one of the best pair of speakers that I have ever heard.
However, I have very recently moved them on. Much to my wife's despair as she was a big fan of their relatively understated and compact appearance. I sold them just a couple of weeks ago.
They were originally ousted by a Linkwitz LX521 reference system. Back to back comparisons between these two systems were very interesting as they differed in sound presentation so very much. In the end I realised I was wasting my time because as soon as you became accustomed to one then the other initially sounded broken, regardless of which you were swapping to and from. So I just had to ask which I enjoyed, the accuracy of the Grimms, or the all enveloping sound of the Linkwitz. I realised that I preferred the Linkwitz sound much more.
However, I have since returned to good old big vented cabinets with big drivers for my main speakers. Before selling off the Grimms I pulled them back into the room to ensure I was not making a mistake that I may regret later. Satisfyingly the result was clear cut. For my taste, in my room, I much prefer my current setup.
The Grimms are amazing at what they do. If you want the most accurate honest full range speaker then they are up there with, if not the, very best.
Once confronted with, and lived with for some time, though then the holy grail of a completely accurate speaker may not be what you wanted all along. I for one, and I believe that I am in a strong majority here, found that I preferred a little bit of seasoning on my sound here and there.
Give me a sweet dark rum on the rocks over a glass of crystal clear ice water any day :)
 
Very useful report, wainwj - thank you.

And now for a tip from me: you may find a good white rum agricole like the Saint Aubin 50 degree I am drinking (straight) at this moment right up your street :)
 
I think this article interesting, but not sure of the validity of comparing products at different price points - unless the prices are 'just' mentioned for reference. I'd also say unconditionally that any speaker needs trying in the room where they will be used.
 
Scanned through this as there is no way I would watch other people listening to music for 2.5 hrs.
Seems to me that they were all in agreement that the ATC's were fun, but the least accurate. D&D's great value. The Grimms despite costing 3x more were unanimously 'in a different league' to the others, and the most impressive by far.
I am particularly interested in this as I have owned a pair of the Grimms, and, like these gentleman, found them to be one of the best pair of speakers that I have ever heard.
However, I have very recently moved them on. Much to my wife's despair as she was a big fan of their relatively understated and compact appearance. I sold them just a couple of weeks ago.
They were originally ousted by a Linkwitz LX521 reference system. Back to back comparisons between these two systems were very interesting as they differed in sound presentation so very much. In the end I realised I was wasting my time because as soon as you became accustomed to one then the other initially sounded broken, regardless of which you were swapping to and from. So I just had to ask which I enjoyed, the accuracy of the Grimms, or the all enveloping sound of the Linkwitz. I realised that I preferred the Linkwitz sound much more.
However, I have since returned to good old big vented cabinets with big drivers for my main speakers. Before selling off the Grimms I pulled them back into the room to ensure I was not making a mistake that I may regret later. Satisfyingly the result was clear cut. For my taste, in my room, I much prefer my current setup.
The Grimms are amazing at what they do. If you want the most accurate honest full range speaker then they are up there with, if not the, very best.
Once confronted with, and lived with for some time, though then the holy grail of a completely accurate speaker may not be what you wanted all along. I for one, and I believe that I am in a strong majority here, found that I preferred a little bit of seasoning on my sound here and there.
Give me a sweet dark rum on the rocks over a glass of crystal clear ice water any day :)

You wouldn't happen to have measurements of both speakers in your room would you?
It might help to provide clues as to why you prefer the Linkwitz over the Grimms, possibly due to the somewaht different way in which they load the room.
How big is your room by the way?
 
A prime example of why you need double blind testing - and why it shouldn't be done via YouTube.
Yes owning all those speakers I couldn’t say the Grimm’s are more detailed, they are super and have a different presentation especially if you use the 45 degree cross in front of the listener option.
Keith
 
I think this article interesting, but not sure of the validity of comparing products at different price points - unless the prices are 'just' mentioned for reference. I'd also say unconditionally that any speaker needs trying in the room where they will be used.
I am sure that in many mixing and mastering studios price is important to commercial viability so I think it was not surprising it was discussed. And yes, a commercially-significant test of this sort would more likely take budget as a key point and compare more similar products. However a lot of what we see is intended more for entertainment. And certainly I agree that fitness for purpose does mean trying out the loudspeaker in its intended installation.

However the video was more interesting to me (as I wrote above) to listen to what issues mattered most to the professional participants. Issues which might not necessarily be important to me or to others, but of interest even so.

The video was also interesting to me in that the audio sources were identified and I have been able to listen to some of them on my equipment to see for myself if what was discussed mattered to me. And BTW I have not yet come to any conclusions - so maybe I am beginning to conclude that at least some things that were discussed did not matter quite so much to me as a consumer.
 
I am sure that in many mixing and mastering studios price is important to commercial viability so I think it was not surprising it was discussed. And yes, a commercially-significant test of this sort would more likely take budget as a key point and compare more similar products. However a lot of what we see is intended more for entertainment. And certainly I agree that fitness for purpose does mean trying out the loudspeaker in its intended installation.

However the video was more interesting to me (as I wrote above) to listen to what issues mattered most to the professional participants. Issues which might not necessarily be important to me or to others, but of interest even so.

The video was also interesting to me in that the audio sources were identified and I have been able to listen to some of them on my equipment to see for myself if what was discussed mattered to me. And BTW I have not yet come to any conclusions - so maybe I am beginning to conclude that at least some things that were discussed did not matter quite so much to me as a consumer.

I agree regarding the listening-panel's comments, very interesting and informative. I was disappointed that no classical music was used though; it obviously isn't their area of work or expertise but also limits the usefulness of their comments due to different goals and expectations. It may also make sense to view their comments on speakers as working tools but perhaps not so much as domestic music playback equipment.
This or any other Youtube video is of course worthless for our own assessment ot those speakers.
 
If I had to put scores to these i'd give the D&D 60%, the ATC 45% and the Grimm 30%

Very interesting how the differences came through in the recording, be interesting to compare with actually being there.
 


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