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Coronavirus - the new strain XVII

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Local Tesco felt like a madhouse yesterday. Groups of people having a chat and a laugh in the middle of aisles, others pushing their way past, kids running round as if it were a playground. Yes, it looks like things are returning to ‘normal’. Bugger.
 
AZ vaccine is being suspended in Ireland too

"It has not been concluded that there is any link between the Covid-19 Vaccine AstraZeneca and these cases.

However, acting on the precautionary principle, and pending receipt of further information, the NIAC has recommended the temporary deferral of the Covid-19 Vaccine AstraZeneca vaccination programme in Ireland."



https://www.theguardian.com/world/l...087fc7fb7f7ec2#block-604dd8fc8f087fc7fb7f7ec2
If they don’t have other vaccines to take its place they don’t understand the precautionary principle.
 
AZ vaccine is being suspended in Ireland too

"It has not been concluded that there is any link between the Covid-19 Vaccine AstraZeneca and these cases.

However, acting on the precautionary principle, and pending receipt of further information, the NIAC has recommended the temporary deferral of the Covid-19 Vaccine AstraZeneca vaccination programme in Ireland."



https://www.theguardian.com/world/l...087fc7fb7f7ec2#block-604dd8fc8f087fc7fb7f7ec2

Does anyone know what the process is for getting clear about whether there's a problem with AZ? How long will it take?

I just can't find any information about what's going on to verify the safety of the vaccine. I've signed up to a study which means that I will be getting my second shot of it soon, but I'm wondering whether it would be more in line with my personal

precautionary principle.

to sign out and wait a bit longer.
 
Does anyone know what the process is for getting clear about whether there's a problem with AZ? How long will it take?

I just can't find any information about what's going on to verify the safety of the vaccine. I've signed up to a study which means that I will be getting my second shot of it soon, but I'm wondering whether it would be more in line with my personal



to sign out and wait a bit longer.
MHRA statement here:

https://www.gov.uk/government/news/...rily-suspend-the-astrazeneca-covid-19-vaccine

Seems sensible to me.
 
In a statement to RTÉ, AstraZeneca said that an analysis of safety data covering more than 17 million doses of the vaccine administered has shown no evidence of an increased risk of the conditions concerned, and that no trends or patterns were observed in clinical trials.

"In fact, the reported numbers of these types of events for Covid-19 Vaccine AstraZeneca are not greater than the number that would have occurred naturally in the unvaccinated population," said a spokesperson.
 
That is what the average means - but it's an average over all time. While the chances of somebody with no prior history developing a clot on any given day is very small, you then introduce the vaccine. It's impossible to tell if the vaccine caused a particular incident in that person by studying averages, only that these incidents are rare. One important question is, has this particular batch caused more events than the average, and that's harder to establish when the numbers are small. For that we need to study events versus time not just the total numbers.
 
In a statement to RTÉ, AstraZeneca said that an analysis of safety data covering more than 17 million doses of the vaccine administered has shown no evidence of an increased risk of the conditions concerned, and that no trends or patterns were observed in clinical trials.

"In fact, the reported numbers of these types of events for Covid-19 Vaccine AstraZeneca are not greater than the number that would have occurred naturally in the unvaccinated population," said a spokesperson.

Right, but there must be some process to verify that and to see whether in the particular cases, there was a cause. Was there a problem with a certain batch, for example?
 
But if they're going to get confirmation of a link, or not, in the next few weeks, that may make a difference to whether I'll agree to getting my second dose soon -- rather than wait for the 12 weeks and see what happens.

If you were going to get blood clots, the chances are you would get them after the first jab. Also if it's a "blind" study you may not get the AZ
 
I don't usually tend towards conspiracy theories and have received one AZ jab but is there a possibility that similar reactions are happening in the UK and are not being disclosed?

I'd hope, and in reality believe, that the MRHA would act no differently to the EMA, the Irish HPRA or the Norwegian equivalents. It's a sad state when the question even comes into one's mind though!

.sjb
 
But if they're going to get confirmation of a link, or not, in the next few weeks, that may make a difference to whether I'll agree to getting my second dose soon -- rather than wait for the 12 weeks and see what happens.
"EMA’s safety committee PRAC is reviewing this issue; it is investigating the cases reported with the batch as well as all other cases of thromboembolic events, and other conditions related to blood clots, reported post-vaccination. The information available so far indicates that the number of thromboembolic events in vaccinated people is no higher than that seen in the general population. As of 9 March 2021, 22 cases of thromboembolic events had been reported among the 3 million people vaccinated with COVID-19 Vaccine AstraZeneca in the European Economic Area."
https://www.ema.europa.eu/en/news/c...suggests-no-specific-issue-batch-used-austria
 
I'm sure that many people who take paracetamol, or any number of other drugs, also have blood clots. Shall we suspend paracetamol?

There is a recognised and researched link between air travel and DVT. Should we ban air travel as a precaution?

Has anybody suggested a mechanism by which the AZ vaccine could cause blood clots?

This seems like a reckless move to me. Sowing this fear in the minds of many will inevitably lead to some refusing the jab, or having to wait longer until receiving it. That is much more dangerous to the individual and society.

If we are to minimise all risk, then we should all stay home, not drive, etc. Life is one long risk, many of those risks are not capable of significant individual reduction.

Until there is proper peer reviewed evidence of a problem, I shall be happy to have my 2nd AZ shot as soon as poss.

There's much everyone could do to reduce their DVT risk; ensure adequate fluid intake, take exercise, etc. Avoiding a vaccine that can save your life or prevent you getting a debilitating disease merely to avoid an unproven risk of DVT seems nuts to me.
 
The problem is that if you give a drug to 30,000,000 people, stuff that happens rarely without the drug will still happen and another one of the dreaded biases, reporting error, will kick in. That means that because it is being reported, more cases that would have been treated as ‘one of those things that happen anyway’ get reported as ‘possibly due to the drug’.

If you want a definitive answer to the question of does the vaccine at 20 cases in 3million injections when the background incidence is about the same, you’ll have to wait some years for enough numbers to go through the system. At a guess, there will be a much higher incidence of people falling off a ladder some time after being vaccinated, but we don’t see that being reported as a side effect. The MHRA have got it spot-on, as usual.

I speak as someone who was responsible clinical development for a drug that needed 8 billion injections before a very rare problem was identified.
 
The problem is that if you give a drug to 30,000,000 people, stuff that happens rarely without the drug will still happen and another one of the dreaded biases, reporting error, will kick in. That means that because it is being reported, more cases that would have been treated as ‘one of those things that happen anyway’ get reported as ‘possibly due to the drug’.

If you want a definitive answer to the question of does the vaccine at 20 cases in 3million injections when the background incidence is about the same, you’ll have to wait some years for enough numbers to go through the system. At a guess, there will be a much higher incidence of people falling off a ladder some time after being vaccinated, but we don’t see that being reported as a side effect. The MHRA have got it spot-on, as usual.

I speak as someone who was responsible clinical development for a drug that needed 8 billion injections before a very rare problem was identified.

The thing is hc - it wouldn't be 20 cases in 3 million injections if they have all been from the same batch or recent batches. That's is why some countries have erred on the side of caution, quite rightly in my view...
 
Good point, but who knows? A couple of cases with that batch suddenly starts some closer looking. You are right - if it’s anything it is a batch issue but still seems unlikely to me. I have seen similar things in the past, even down to multiple events in a single hospital when no events occurred anywhere else with the same batch.
 
If any country doesn't want to use the AZ vaccine they have they should quickly donate the vaccines to other countries that do want them.
 
Why isn’t it really easy to see if all the cases with a thrombosis are from the same batch? You just, like, look at some number on the record.
 
Why isn’t it really easy to see if all the cases with a thrombosis are from the same batch? You just, like, look at some number on the record.

That's what will happen I imagine - I guess they might be because they're recent reports. These things take a bit of time...
 
Quite.
When I reported my reaction the AZ vaccine on the govt site for reporting they wanted to know the batch number.
 
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