Coronavirus - the new strain IX

[mandryka]

Sorry, not convinced. It was already known by then that it took 4 or 5 days for symptoms to show after infection. So asymptomatic or pre-symptomatic, not testing before discharge was at best irresponsible. Remember that four bus loads of holidaymakers quarantined in the Wirral? They knew about the risks back then and in the case of the elderly, they decided to wing it. It was all about plausible deniability, not about lack of knowledge or understanding.

They knew it took a few days to show up, but when they made the discharges the politicians may not have known that you could be infectious before it showed up. That's what Boris and Matthew say. I'm not sure if they're lying, they may be, they may not -- we'd have to look carefully at SAGE and dates. Of course with hindsight it was a terrible thing to have done. But they didn't have the benefit of hindsight.

What really went on is something that someone some day will write a doctorate about. I think that until these things are cleared up we shouldn't be too quick to point the finger.

 

[Sue Pertwee-Tyr]

They knew it took a few days to show up, but when they made the discharges the politicians may not have known that you could be infectious before it showed up. That's what Boris and Matthew say. I'm not sure if they're lying, they may be, they may not -- we'd have to look carefully at SAGE and dates. Of course with hindsight it was a terrible thing to have done. But they didn't have the benefit of hindsight.

What really went on is something that someone some day will write a doctorate about. I think that until these things are cleared up we shouldn't be too quick to point the finger.

My recollection is that people said this was not a good thing to do, at the time they were doing it. I may be mistaken, but that’s how I remember it.

 

[Sue Pertwee-Tyr]

You'll get used to that too, it happens all the time. Some are inclined to make up something you never said, or attribute to you an opinion you don't hold and then attempt to argue with you about it.

You’ll notice I quoted his words, only editing the stuff about another fishie.

 

[droodzilla]

I think they may do better but I have to say it's based on faith rather than facts/ I'm struggling to think of something this serious while Labour were in charge. The banking crisis doesn't come close to this.

Somewhere, there is a tweet of a BBC interview with Corbyn in which he asks why the government has not imposed lockdown. The date is around 11th March, at least a week before Boris Johnson did the right thing. The comments underneath the tweet are quite a sight: multiple variations on the theme of "**** off you idiotic loser".

This is one reason why I'm convinced that Corbyn would have locked down at least a week earlier and saved, maybe, 20000 lives as a result. There are other reasons but, essentially, they boil down to the fact that Corbyn gives a damn about other people and takes the idea of being a public servant seriously.

 

[gavreid]

Somewhere, there is a tweet of a BBC interview with Corbyn in which he asks why the government has not imposed lockdown. The date is around 11th March, at least a week before Boris Johnson did the right thing. The comments underneath the tweet were quite a sight: multiple variations on the theme of "**** off you idiotic loser".

This is one reason why I'm convinced that Corbyn would have locked down at least a week earlier and saved, maybe, 20000 lives as a result. There are other reasons but, essentially, they boil down to the fact that Corbyn gives a damn about other people and takes the idea of being a public servant seriously.

The Government hasn't published its strategy now since the beginning of March and the 1000+ cases on Sunday breached their own announced threshold, what next? 10 million have used the eat out vouchers - I can only guess at how many contacts that has involved that would otherwise have been avoided...

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2...s-above-1000-a-day-breached-government-target

 

[billo]

You’ve got me completely wrong, Stephen, and thank you for such a reasonable response.

I can’t stand the Tories, I would never, ever vote for them.

But, I do like Boris, why I can’t tell you completely, maybe it’s the voices in my head, haha, but there is something about him that I like.

I also think under these totally unpredictable and unprecedented time’s, that nobody would have anticipated the impact, so irrespective of who was in power, I doubt they would have done that much better or worse.

Was there not a report handed to the Tory Gov in 2016(or 2019) about exactly this? and the steps needed to mitigate the impact. But of course we had austerity to deal with along with preserving the economy

 

[Andrew C!]

Can someone on here point me to the stats in the UK for deaths by all causes, that will also include Covid? I know this was mentioned at the peak of the 1st/current wave, but I'm interested to see what the current deaths are as a percentage of all deaths. I've had a look at ONS but can't find it.

 

[Bob McC]

Yes you do. I like them, they're funny.

You post most of them...!

 

[gavreid]

Can someone on here point me to the stats in the UK for deaths by all causes, that will also include Covid? I know this was mentioned at the peak of the 1st/current wave, but I'm interested to see what the current deaths are as a percentage of all deaths. I've had a look at ONS but can't find it.

Deaths are near the monthly norm. There's only been a handful of covid deaths of late

https://www.economist.com/graphic-detail/2020/07/15/tracking-covid-19-excess-deaths-across-countries

 

[Caledon1297]

Can someone on here point me to the stats in the UK for deaths by all causes, that will also include Covid? I know this was mentioned at the peak of the 1st/current wave, but I'm interested to see what the current deaths are as a percentage of all deaths. I've had a look at ONS but can't find it.

The following (wealth of information!) page has a bar chart for 'UK Excess Deaths by Week', and a graph for 'UK Deaths from All Causes, 2015 – Present'

https://www.travellingtabby.com/uk-coronavirus-tracker/

 

[Bob McC]

So Mandryka’s much touted support of Williamson’s analysis of the meta study of covid in kids is shown to be another pile of cack.
It in fact reveals that Williamson yet again is telling a pack of lies.
1. The govt will not receive official provisional findings until next week
2. The report will not be finalised before autumn
But most damningly
3. PHE scientists say it is far more nuanced that the Tory liars would like us to believe and that secondary pupils are “most likely to get infected, have silent infection, transmit infection and get sicker.”
One worker went on to say research shows it is being caught and transmitted in secondary schools and transmission in sixth forms is the same as in the adult population.
Times 11/08/20

 

[mandryka]

So Mandryka’s much touted support of Williamson’s analysis of the meta study of covid in kids is shown to be another pile of crack.
It in fact reveals that Williamson yet again is telling a pack of lies.
1. The govt will not receive official provisional findings until next week
2. The report will not be finalised before autumn
But most damningly
3. PHE scientists say it is far more nuanced that the Tory liars would like us to believe and that secondary pupils are “most likely to get infected, have silent infection, transmit infection and get sicker.”
One worker went on to say research shows it is being caught and transmitted in secondary schools and transmission in sixth forms is the same as in the adult population.
Times 11/08/20

Ah yes, by coincidence I was just about to post this

Health minister walks back effusive ministerial claims on school safety

Edward Argar, the health minister, has sounded a note of caution regarding research touted only yesterday by the education secretary as showing it was safe to reopen schools.

Asked about transmission of the virus in relation to secondary pupils, Mr Argar said the Public Health England research was "still work in progress".

He told Sky News: "I think we should be cautious about reading too much into that work in progress, it's important work but it isn't complete yet."

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/...ockdown-stats-test-latest-today-a9664151.html

 

[mandryka]

And this


Secondary school pupils are just as likely to transmit coronavirus as adults say researchers - as scientists call for routine Covid tests for children and teachers when classes restart

• PHE found primary school pupils do not appear to pass the virus to each other
• But scientists say stricter rules will likely be needed for older schoolchildren
• Gavin Williamson said PHE findings show little risk from reopening schools soon
• Researchers who worked on a study are reportedly unhappy with the way their findings, which have not yet been fully analysed, had been used by ministers
• Some scientists want regular tests at schools - even for those with no symptoms
• 
  https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/ar...nsmit-coronavirus-adults-say-researchers.html

 

[stephen bennett]

Finally. According to Today on R4, local health and Government will now be heavily involved in the failed track and trace system.

This should have happened in March but Johnson’s authoritarianism, the need to gift friends and donors and the Tories ‘state is bad’ ideology, meant many months wasted and much needless suffering.

Think what Labour would have done. Precisely the opposite.

The furlough scheme is the only thing the Tories have done that has actually been effective.

Stephen

 

[stephen bennett]

So Mandryka’s much touted support of Williamson’s analysis of the meta study of covid in kids is shown to be another pile of crack.
It in fact reveals that Williamson yet again is telling a pack of lies.
1. The govt will not receive official provisional findings until next week
2. The report will not be finalised before autumn
But most damningly
3. PHE scientists say it is far more nuanced that the Tory liars would like us to believe and that secondary pupils are “most likely to get infected, have silent infection, transmit infection and get sicker.”
One worker went on to say research shows it is being caught and transmitted in secondary schools and transmission in sixth forms is the same as in the adult population.
Times 11/08/20

I assume Tory polling shows that enough people still buy the line the ‘Johnson is a great PM’ that further deaths are less of a barrier to them being re-elected than lying.

Stephen

 

[Seanm]

They knew it took a few days to show up, but when they made the discharges the politicians may not have known that you could be infectious before it showed up. That's what Boris and Matthew say. I'm not sure if they're lying, they may be, they may not -- we'd have to look carefully at SAGE and dates. Of course with hindsight it was a terrible thing to have done. But they didn't have the benefit of hindsight.

What really went on is something that someone some day will write a doctorate about. I think that until these things are cleared up we shouldn't be too quick to point the finger.

Others had the benefit of foresight, and warned them, to no avail. It’s the very worst, and most obviously scandalous, aspect of the whole affair. Lewis Goodall has done some good work here if you want to inform yourself. Little excuse for running a defence campaign without having first informed yourself a little. It’s all out there.

 

[gavreid]

I assume Tory polling shows that enough people still buy the line the ‘Johnson is a great PM’ that further deaths are less of a barrier to them being re-elected than lying.

Stephen

The Guardian's take is more that there will be hell to pay if they fail to reopen Schools. All parties have gone along with the importance of reopening after the summer so there's been no counter argument, except from the teachers themselves - who've been criticised from all sides. I want to see Labour arguing clearly that school must only open if it's safe to do so and the T&T scheme is fully operational, but chance will be a fine thing I'm afraid.

 

[mandryka]

 

[stephen bennett]

A decent overview of how corrupt this Government is.

I’m still astonished that a majority don’t appear to care about this. Indeed, feel that Johnson is a ‘great pm’.

Stephen

 

[pjdowns]

Somewhere, there is a tweet of a BBC interview with Corbyn in which he asks why the government has not imposed lockdown. The date is around 11th March, at least a week before Boris Johnson did the right thing. The comments underneath the tweet are quite a sight: multiple variations on the theme of "**** off you idiotic loser".

This is one reason why I'm convinced that Corbyn would have locked down at least a week earlier and saved, maybe, 20000 lives as a result. There are other reasons but, essentially, they boil down to the fact that Corbyn gives a damn about other people and takes the idea of being a public servant seriously.

Oh no not at all, I was a Labour supporter for years but just couldn't vote for them this time around because Corbyn was IMO a massive liability. I suspect had he won we would have been in an even worse state than what the Tories have led us to.