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Coronavirus - the new strain IX

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jackbarron said:
Johnson said a few months ago in Greenwich that the economy comes before health. This has been the attitude beind the Tory's policies since Covid-19 appeared. It accounts for their tardiness and why so many of the UK's citizens have got the virus and died.

Starmer going along Johnson and the Tories is disgusting. He should be shouting them down.

Jack
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So Johnson's logic goes something like this:

Brexit>the economy
The economy>health

Seems people's well-being and lives are way down the list of priorities. Colour me surprised.

If he and his robbin' band of merry men don't care about us, then why the hell should we listen to them? Makes you wonder why so many voted for this shower of stools.
 
I can only imagine what Johnson would be advocating if COVID-19 hadn’t almost killed him.

Joe
 
gavreid said:
I've already explained that failing to put up an opposition makes it more difficult to do so in future because peoples' ideas aren't static. Nobody with say 'ah yes that Starmer man was right not to say anything in Parliament when the Government relaxed the 2m rule against the leading scientific advice of the day', but many will sure have reason to lament his failure to provide any leadership at the right time....
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Contrary to what you may think, my opinion is as valid as yours; Unless you are an expert in public health, economics and politics obviously.
 
gavreid said:
Pretty expert why? Expert enough to know what's going on certainly - you don't?
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Expert as in the way that Brexiteer MPs are experts in the EU, SM, CU and the WTO or expert in have qualifications or background in the areas you are talking about?
 
Nick_G said:
Seems people's well-being and lives are way down the list of priorities.
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It's not that simple - there has to be an eye on the long term.

What happens to the UK economy if the lockdown continues as is?
What happens to the mental health of the population if they're kept in 'lockdown' for much longer? What strain might that put on the NHS and its surrogate mental health service, the police?
How many could died as a result of an even more chronically underfunded NHS (because the economy is still at the bottom of the'V' or 'U') and is further stretched when Autumn comes around? Is it more than would die from the relaxation of social distancing?

Now, I don't know what the answers to that are; perhaps others here have more insight.
 
gavreid said:
I've already explained that failing to put up any opposition makes it more difficult to do so in future, because peoples' ideas aren't static. Nobody will say 'ah yes that Starmer man was right not to say anything in Parliament when the Government relaxed the 2m rule against the leading scientific advice of the day', but many will sure have reason to lament his failure to provide any leadership at a critical juncture - maybe even you....
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Quite the reverse actually Gav, opposing everything just makes it harder to oppose anything. He has offered qualified support for a course of action subject to conditions that we do not yet know have been met.

Starmer didn't "not say anything" you are choosing not to hear what he did say.
 
SteveS1 said:
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Starmer didn't "not say anything" you are choosing not to hear what he did say.
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Correct - he supported this shit show of a Government!

He's woefully short of experience - I think that's why he often just mumbles in his notes
 
gavreid said:
He's woefully short of experience - I think that's why he often just mumbles in his notes
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There wasn't a chin hung out there today just waiting to be tagged.

Johnson now has to hope a) that no significant spread starts and b) if it does, that the published (by then) scientific advice supported his choice and that the funding, organisation and TT systems are all in place as he assured people they were.

If that proves not to be, his chin will be right out there. That is the time to draw him one off. Better still, Johnson will only have himself to blame. Plenty of people will remember that Starmer had asked for those conditions to be met in return for his support.
 
Bob McC said:
Someone I know who had covid 19 early on and was hospitalised but not ventilated was rushed to hospital on Saturday when they could not breathe. They were kept in overnight and put on oxygen and sent home on Sunday with strict instructions to not wait as long next time. All down to lung damage caused by the immune reaction to the virus.
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The bloke who lives across the road from my Dad is still in hospital, he's been there since early March I think. Covid free now, obviously, but it sounds like he was one of the unlucky ones and it has done a complete number on him. Early 50s, no underlying medical problems.
 
SteveS1 said:
There wasn't a chin hung out there today just waiting to be tagged.

Johnson now has to hope a) that no significant spread starts and b) if it does, that the published (by then) scientific advice supported his choice and that the funding, organisation and TT systems are all in place as he assured people they were.

If that proves not to be, his chin will be right out there. That is the time to draw him one off. Better still, Johnson will only have himself to blame. Plenty of people will remember that Starmer had asked for those conditions to be met in return for his support.
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At the cost of many lives and plenty more facing significant disability into old age... Ask people if they think there will be a 2nd wave - most don't know either way because they don't have an informed opinion. Many more would have a clearer view if the Government was at all honest, in the absence of that it is down to Starmer to support the voices of those who are trying to tell us all.
 
SteveS1 said:
Johnson now has to hope a) that no significant spread starts .
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This is pretty certain to happen, I mean in Winter when people start spending more time inside. I hope not, but I'd be surprised if there weren't very significant flare ups, or even (heaven forbid) a generalised nation-wide return to exponential transmission.

SteveS1 said:
the published (by then) scientific advice supported his choice .
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There's so much arguing among scientists about this, the data makes so many presumptions about the way COVID 19 transmits, the data is often about transmission of other related virus, and anyway is very old. I'd be surprised if anything concrete comes of that line of investigation. There's too much wiggle room.

SteveS1 said:
the funding, organisation and TT systems are all in place as he assured people they were.
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Yes
 
Why are all these elite sportsmen getting the virus?
Presumably they can distance better than the rest of us thanks to big houses etc and don't have to squeeze round Asda.
 
this is bad news ,

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-53065340

Tens of thousands of people will need to be recalled to hospital after a serious Covid-19 infection to check if they have been left with permanent lung damage, doctors have told the BBC.

Experts are concerned a significant proportion could be left with lung scarring, known as pulmonary fibrosis.

The condition is irreversible and symptoms can include severe shortness of breath, coughing and fatigue.

  • Pulmonary fibrosis is a disease that occurs when fragile parts of the lungs become damaged and scarred
  • The thickened, stiff tissue makes it more difficult for the air sacs to work effectively
  • In some cases this can lead to breathing difficulties and fatigue, as well as leaving the patient more susceptible to other lung infections in the future
  • It is an irreversible condition and in some cases can be progressive, meaning it gets worse over time.
 
davidsrsb said:
Why are all these elite sportsmen getting the virus?
Presumably they can distance better than the rest of us thanks to big houses etc and don't have to squeeze round Asda.
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If you're referring to the recent spate of Tennis players getting it, then that is mainly Novak Djokovich's fault for ignoring all the advice and trying to run some sort of mini tournament in Croatia and Serbia with a few fellow Tennis folk, it's turned into a massive shit show because it looks like most of them have caught it.
 
i.j.russell said:
He chose a wise strategy. Even if you think it's wrong to do what the PM is proposing, how do you think it would go down with the voting public that the Labour Leader was opposed to something they really want after three months in isolation? How do you think the Tory Press would spin it if he opposed it? I'm sure that he would like to skewer Johnson but with a basket case of an economy, the catastrophe that is Brexit on the horizon and the inevitable dashing of expectations of vast investment in Red Wall seats, this was not the hill to die on. We are stuck with this Government for 4.5 more years; There will be plenty of opportunities for them the fail.
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The thing is they don't really want it: polling suggests they're ambivalent about it at best.

https://twitter.com/LeftieStats/status/1275411065862488073?s=20

https://twitter.com/LeftieStats/status/1275361487943618560?s=20

Ambivalence is a tricky thing for a politician to articulate, I'll admit. But we don't have 4.5 years here: the objective is not to get the Tories out of power some time from now but to stop them killing us now. I don't get much of a sense of urgency from Starmer.
 
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