sean99
pfm Member
Is it ok to be pompous if you really do know it all ?
Coronavirus: Pubs 'may need to shut' to allow schools to reopen
- Thread starter George J
- Start date
sean99
pfm Member
If the choice is between schools and pubs then the answer is obvious, since education is so critical to a healthy society. Unfortunately I foresee the opening of schools causing an increase in the R factor and I’d be very surprised if schools manage to remain open through until Christmas. It’s a terrible dilemma and to be hoped that an effective vaccine is available as soon as possible.
I wish it were otherwise as we’ve just paid $20k for tuition, room and board for September through December for our daughter so I really hope she gets the education and services we hope we’re paying for (the school has special services for children with learning disabilities). It will be a real quandary if they have to abandon campus based teaching before Christmas and want another $20k for online learning only for the second half of the year.
I wish it were otherwise as we’ve just paid $20k for tuition, room and board for September through December for our daughter so I really hope she gets the education and services we hope we’re paying for (the school has special services for children with learning disabilities). It will be a real quandary if they have to abandon campus based teaching before Christmas and want another $20k for online learning only for the second half of the year.
mandryka
pfm Member
I’m sure there is a bit of a Protestant killjoy tendency in the UK, at least among some groups. No sex, no drink. And in fact as far as I know there’s no evidence yet that the rise in infections comes from pubs, rather than, for example, people returning from holidays in Spain having caught it there. Anyway, one thing we saw in Manchester is that Test and Trace can sometimes pinpoint fairly precisely how clusters grow, through pubs or by other means. So that should inform the decisions.
You are aware I take it that alcohol is available for sale outside of pubs? If so where does the no drink mantra come from? I am certainly not advocating no alcohol, just that may be it's wise to drink it at home with a few friends than in a crowded busy pub full of people you don't know if that is what it takes to get the schools open.
mandryka
pfm Member
No wasn’t taking a dig at you, I understand where you’re coming from. I feel slightly uneasy about going to pubs and indeed using the tube.
paulfromcamden
Baffled
From 2 mins on Google:
Hanoi: https://uk.reuters.com/article/us-h...ter-covid-19-outbreak-in-danang-idUKKCN24U2CS
France: https://uk.reuters.com/article/us-h...reak-that-began-in-a-french-bar-idUKKCN24W1KD
San Diego: https://www.kpbs.org/news/2020/jul/30/5-outbreaks-san-diego-area-restaurants-bar/
Florida: https://www.independent.co.uk/news/...lose-coronavirus-spike-outbreak-a9568631.html
Minnesota: https://bringmethenews.com/minnesota-news/list-of-19-bars-in-minnesota-linked-to-covid-19-outbreaks
Why bars (and churches!) are a problem during a pandemic: https://www.healthline.com/health-n...-a-bar-during-the-pandemic-is-a-terrible-idea
paulfromcamden
Baffled
FWIW I would normally be in the pub three nights a week. I really miss going to the pub! No Protestant tendency here.
Marchbanks
Hat and Beard member
Just a question - how can people talk about a ‘spike’ in cases when they are still on the increase and no-one knows yet whether the fall will be equally rapid (ie a ‘spike’?)
Joe Hutch
Mate of the bloke
If you really do know it all, you know how to fake modesty and self-deprecation.
Marchbanks
Hat and Beard member
And, one would assume, a sense of humour.
Well, they may appear busier as everyone is inside? People go out less when the weather is not so nice.
I am not entrenched re the pubs but I am aware that people will lose income.
I would prioritise schools over pubs though.
Marc O'Brien
pfm reMember
The Tories policy on Covid-19 has been piecemeal all the way, but this utterly ridiculous announcement tops it all, along with their three months too late policy of wearing masks in shops, a complete u turn, this lady IS for turning, Boris really is the bumbling lion cub that Steve Bell portrayed him as. Come October when the govt. stops paying 10M peoples wages we'll see who wants to stay at home and who wants to go to work.
Lee T
pfm Member
I think the majority want to go to work but the government have f***** this one up. Worst hit in Europe on every front. Boris was described as a lazy politician. He has not disappointed. He has created a country fearful of living their lives.
Also, if i hear one more person claim they have no symptoms so they are fine, i could well light them on fire.
TheDecameron
Unicorns fart glitter.
I had a vivid dream last night about a pfm meet up and how people were different to how I’d imagined them. Joe, you were a dumpy middle aged woman with shortish grey hair.
mandryka
pfm Member
I’d heard of one of those, I heard someone say that the sample size was too small to draw any conclusions.
Apparently there have been 132,000 studies of COVID since January, some of them contradictory, many of them suggestive at best, not all of them good science. I certainly can’t keep on top of it - Tony’s idea - read the research and draw your own conclusions - is impossible for me. I need leaders, people who can guide me.
Andrew C!
Been around a while....
Quite. We were not ‘locked down’.
Joe Hutch
Mate of the bloke
I dreamed about Joe P the other night, and in the dream we discussed hifi, but the details escape me. I still haven't really recovered from the shock of discovering that Tony L is bald (or as nearly bald as makes no odds).
George J
Herefordshire member
Thanks for posts in reply to this. I enjoy reading the various shades of view on a topic like this, and probably hold a quite mild view on it myself.
I think there is case for saying that education is much more important than drinking in a pub, especially as off-licences and shops sell the beverage of choice ... should it come to a choice to be made.
But the argument - as is usually the case - is not clear cut. Really a judgement call that cannot be decided on scientific evidence alone when as far as I know the expert view is by no means crystallised. So it becomes one off those hard to call decisions for the administration. What is decided may be right or wrong, and will be judged correctly only in hindsight.
____________
I had crossed words with a customer yesterday at the fuel station. Obviously the wearing of face masks or coverings is now legally required in shops, and if someone comes in without a mask or face covering the situation is a question of diplomacy, so far as that can be managed in the circumstances.
I knew the customer in question had poured no fuel, so was only there for snacks, or milk, or perhaps car accessories or spares. I asked if he would mind buying a face mask - we sell them singly at no mark-up over the packs of ten - and he point blank refused. I tendered the idea that he might remember the law on his next visit. Then he became very angry and asked me if I was refusing to serve him. I said that would be a question for the manager if he wanted to know. At that point he uttered some choice cursing words and left.
What are we supposed to do with such people? I reported the whole thing shortly afterwards to the manager, who said he heard the man in question raising his voice. "You did the right thing, for what I could tell," was his reaction, but it is not easy to enjoy serving people like this.
Incidentally, though not mandated by law, I do wear a proper face mask while on duty in the shop, and this helps with the gentle art of persuasion.
Best wishes from George
I think there is case for saying that education is much more important than drinking in a pub, especially as off-licences and shops sell the beverage of choice ... should it come to a choice to be made.
But the argument - as is usually the case - is not clear cut. Really a judgement call that cannot be decided on scientific evidence alone when as far as I know the expert view is by no means crystallised. So it becomes one off those hard to call decisions for the administration. What is decided may be right or wrong, and will be judged correctly only in hindsight.
____________
I had crossed words with a customer yesterday at the fuel station. Obviously the wearing of face masks or coverings is now legally required in shops, and if someone comes in without a mask or face covering the situation is a question of diplomacy, so far as that can be managed in the circumstances.
I knew the customer in question had poured no fuel, so was only there for snacks, or milk, or perhaps car accessories or spares. I asked if he would mind buying a face mask - we sell them singly at no mark-up over the packs of ten - and he point blank refused. I tendered the idea that he might remember the law on his next visit. Then he became very angry and asked me if I was refusing to serve him. I said that would be a question for the manager if he wanted to know. At that point he uttered some choice cursing words and left.
What are we supposed to do with such people? I reported the whole thing shortly afterwards to the manager, who said he heard the man in question raising his voice. "You did the right thing, for what I could tell," was his reaction, but it is not easy to enjoy serving people like this.
Incidentally, though not mandated by law, I do wear a proper face mask while on duty in the shop, and this helps with the gentle art of persuasion.
Best wishes from George