This is a somewhat idle question, not driven by pressing need and answers not necessarily likely to lead to action by me any time soon. Nonetheless [GET TO THE POINT!!], I can't help wondering how a Majik LP12 would sound compared to the Rega P3 with which I'm familiar, and also how a Thorens TP 1600 or Project Classic Evo would compare with those two. In other words, how would people describe the sound of three new suspended subchassis turntables? Are there characteristics they share that contrast with the P3's sonic style, for example? (I appreciate that the solution is to do some listening, and I'm not ruling that out. But at the moment it feels like v. early days on the potential purchase cycle.)
'Classic' turntable options
- Thread starter w00fer
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JimmyB
pfm Member
Better to just buy one of @lencotweaker rebuilds from the classifieds and sell it on if not your cup of tea...
That's a tempting idea. Must confess I've not looked at the classifieds before, but have just taken a peek. Definitely food for thought, thanks.
Everything I've read suggests the LP12 is at the expressive end of the spectrum, 'coloured' even. If that's the opposite of the rather sterile sound I got from a direct drive Sony t/t about thirty years ago that would be no bad thing. I'm assuming / hoping that instrumental timbres and orchestral dynamics and textures would be handled adroitly. Are there any classical music enthusiasts here who chose an LP12 over alternatives because its characteristics lent themselves well to such music? And what gets sacrificed or de-prioritized in the LP12's way of doing things?
Yes I totally get that. My framing of the question was based partly on a supposition that one pays over the odds when buying an LP12 new, Linn pricing being what it is. So then it's interesting to know how something like the Thorens or Project would compare, given that new they cost the same as a s/hand LP12. But if they are aiming at a completely different style of musical presentation maybe it's pointless to think in this way?
1000RPM
pfm Member
if you want to test drive suspended TTs, why not get hold of a Thorens TD150 and take it for a spin? Fairly representative of all the good points of suspended decks (musical, rhythmic, warmish tone, plenty of detail but definitely not clinical). Thinking or downside, DD is a bit more precise handling transients and rock solid timing. I will return to this later...
Beauty is ALWAYS in the ear of the beholder. That being so, make a careful choice and invest.
Besides - an LP12 is just the TT. Where to go then, for the arm and the cart' and the stage, and the........................................................
Yes, some of the comments in another thread about P3 vs. LP12 make me wonder whether there's such a thing as a generic LP12 sound, what with all the upgrades and permutations of arms and cartridges.
This is sort of what I was getting at, in terms of a suspended deck sound. As a student in the 80s I put a ridiculously cheap BSR suspended deck mechanism, including a very nasty-looking arm, in a self-made wooden box. With a Shure cartridge from Tandy it sounded really not bad to my inexperienced young ears. Certainly warm and bouncy.
There is a generic. Think of the huge variety of a favourite fruit, or vegetable - apple, pear, strawberry, potato, whatever - LOADS of variations on that basic taste. But a strawberry is never going to taste like a raspberry.
That's the best that I can do to explain.
Nice analogy! I suspect there are some items in the fruit bowl that I still need to sample...
Rockmeister
pfm Member
There is a generic sound but like all groups of fans, real fans seem to make tinier changes bigger than the rest of us manage to hear.
There is a bit of truth in all the generalisation however IME.
Suspended decks very very rarely sound harsh/tight/over-clean.
Heavy platter/small motor/non suspended belt drives (like the Notts Analogue and their friends) are in a sweet spot of definition/tight bass/ ease of use with little tweaking and some slight warmth IME.
DD's are much better than most seem to give credit for. The new Technics range for example are excellent sounding decks, and,
Rega sound nothing at all like Linn.
Then there is room and speaker interaction, amps, other sources and on into the night.
I think I was helped by doing a huge amount of listening to try to work out what I liked as a sound. We are all different in this of course.
Take your fave LP, imagine how you want it sound if poss, and go hunt the sound. If you ever do get near the experience, then start your analysis, but always demoing at home in your own room. Rooms are critical and you may work long and hard to re create your perfect demo at home.
When you near the end of this experience you can start mucking about with front ends, but honestly, 75% of what you want lies in the room and the speakers. Find them and then muck about with the rest. meanwhile, keep everything 'neutral'. If you start at the beginning of this trek by using something that introduces colouration into the signal, all you're doing is blurring what you hear elsewhere. Short term gain. long term loss IMO.
There is a bit of truth in all the generalisation however IME.
Suspended decks very very rarely sound harsh/tight/over-clean.
Heavy platter/small motor/non suspended belt drives (like the Notts Analogue and their friends) are in a sweet spot of definition/tight bass/ ease of use with little tweaking and some slight warmth IME.
DD's are much better than most seem to give credit for. The new Technics range for example are excellent sounding decks, and,
Rega sound nothing at all like Linn.
Then there is room and speaker interaction, amps, other sources and on into the night.
I think I was helped by doing a huge amount of listening to try to work out what I liked as a sound. We are all different in this of course.
Take your fave LP, imagine how you want it sound if poss, and go hunt the sound. If you ever do get near the experience, then start your analysis, but always demoing at home in your own room. Rooms are critical and you may work long and hard to re create your perfect demo at home.
When you near the end of this experience you can start mucking about with front ends, but honestly, 75% of what you want lies in the room and the speakers. Find them and then muck about with the rest. meanwhile, keep everything 'neutral'. If you start at the beginning of this trek by using something that introduces colouration into the signal, all you're doing is blurring what you hear elsewhere. Short term gain. long term loss IMO.
Abso -f******-lutely - so tread with caution, do not overpay and enjoy the ride.
People take this insane (mostly) boy's hobby FAR too seriously.
Thanks, this is v informative and helpful. It's the 'Rega sound nothing at all like Linn' point I need to focus on, with a spot of demo-ing.
Rockmeister
pfm Member
sure...a used Thorens TD150 with a decent arm has some similarities, and shouldn't cost too much. Michell decks have something of the warm and rythmic sound but are more costly.
Truth is, when Linn made the Sondek, they got that just right and very few makers tried to compete. The 'other' path was 'master tape honesty' and there, Townshend/Pink Triangle/SME and others made a good living. Rega are nearer that approach IME. There is really no cheaper Linnalike.
Truth is, when Linn made the Sondek, they got that just right and very few makers tried to compete. The 'other' path was 'master tape honesty' and there, Townshend/Pink Triangle/SME and others made a good living. Rega are nearer that approach IME. There is really no cheaper Linnalike.
Big Tabs
looking backwards, going forwards
Heybrook TT2 if you can find one…
1000RPM
pfm Member
if it helps - I have a gyrodec which is somewhere between the worlds of belt drive suspended and DD - it has much of the precision of a DD and paints a big soundstage with a full sound. Good for complex orchestral pieces I would think.
I use the gyro for serious grown-up listening - precision, exquisite timing etc. Von Karajan is at the wheel. When I spin up the TD150, Malcolm Sargent grabs the baton and charges on
I use the gyro for serious grown-up listening - precision, exquisite timing etc. Von Karajan is at the wheel. When I spin up the TD150, Malcolm Sargent grabs the baton and charges on
'Master tape honesty' doesn't sound terribly appealing, but then again I'm not sure I've ever experienced it. Probably I need to hear that too. I know I get on with the Linn approach to amplification, albeit more the older LK style, so if the LP12 sound is similar in spirit then that would bode well. Interesting that you see Rega as being closer to the other style; maybe that's why I'm LP12-curious.