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Christmas Wine II

Discussion in 'off topic' started by Dogberry, Nov 27, 2020.

  1. mjw

    mjw pfm Member

    Fairly sure this was in the mixed case I ordered from Vinatis. It went down very nicely with an insalata tricolore.

    Dogberry likes this.
  2. Marchbanks

    Marchbanks Hat and Beard member

    Never tried the rosé, but I have a number of their various sweet Chenins. The only one I’ve tried to date is the CdL 2018, which according to CT I said was ‘very good’. Sorry, I get carried away and lapse into hyperbole sometimes. The Vinatis price for the St Aubin is very good, in fact in France it is less than I paid direct from the Roche Moreau stand at a Wine Fair. Bastards.
  3. Dogberry

    Dogberry pfm Member

    That looks a tempting price.
    You'll soon be getting in pseuds corner with reviews like that.
    Knowing your wide tastes any thoughts on this
  4. mandryka

    mandryka pfm Member

    Can’t get excited about Villa Antinori Toscana bottom of the range at £16 plonk from Sainsburys. Too much oak at first though it tamed down after a couple of hours. Just not a very interesting wine, drinkable without pain, but for me, without much pleasure either.
  5. Dogberry

    Dogberry pfm Member

    Mm just had an email from DPD saying goods were listed for return due to non-payment of duty by Vinatis.I didn't tell her I've now got them, presumably Vinatis have now paid HMRC.
    Just had an email from Vinatis saying due to damage to goods they couldn't be delivered.
    Do I want a refund or voucher?
    Total craziness, should I chance it? I doubt it.
  6. wacko

    wacko pfm Member

    As a reward for slumming it a couple of days ago a J J Prum Kabinett today :)
  7. Dogberry

    Dogberry pfm Member

    You been down to the bottom
    But you're back where you belong.

    That was a good tour ,wish I could remember it.
    wacko likes this.
  8. Dogberry

    Dogberry pfm Member

    A fabulous wine , another winner from Y.Cuilleron.

  9. Marchbanks

    Marchbanks Hat and Beard member


    Still in the mood for something uncompromising, it is Montus tonight. I thought about the 2012, as I had been rather taken with Vince_Chip’s review on CT...

    ‘Magnifique. Les tanins sont polis, tel des galets ronds sur le bord de la mer, sans aspérité. Encore beaucoup de vie, une vie sage avec des épaules encore larges...’

    ...but when Gaston pointed out that there were only two remaining but still four 2010s, pragmatism won the day. But it is also a glorious, multi-faceted, costaud thing - and perfect on a rather chilly night.

    It is currently being paired with some equally muscular live music from the 1973 King Crimson. Man, they were good. I remember seeing them at... (oh, shut up - ed.)
  10. PsB

    PsB Citizen of Nowhere™

    Is that a dry Viognier or a semi-dry/semi-sweet?

    I bought some Ardèche wines about 5 years ago and their Viogniers were on the semi-sweet side of things - late harvested in October. Very pleasant with certain dishes. I got them from the cave coopérative d'Alba-la-Romaine, along with some fairly robust Syrah (Basalte and Terra Helvorum), some sweet Muscat (Ninon), and a rare red made from a grape called Chatus. You have to decant this last one for a long time before serving apparently, and I never seem to be able to plan that far ahead, so can't really remember what it's like (lot of tannins IIRC)
    Not the most refined wines on the planet, but good for the price (most of their wines are between 4 and 10 €, the Viognier VT is under 15 €).
  11. Marchbanks

    Marchbanks Hat and Beard member

    I’ve just spotted this, which I take to be a sly dig at my perceived Francocentricity. Country, I mean. No, I have never tasted Raúl’s wines. But as he has a long beard he is bound to be a fine chap and by extension an excellent winemaker, and so one day I will. But Vinatis isn’t the cheapest place for the one you mention - it costs less at Decántolo (which appears to be a Spanish version of Vinatis) or Wine Direct, to name but two.
  12. mjw

    mjw pfm Member

    @PsB, it was definitely dry - think a decent Gaillac co-op white.
    PsB likes this.
  13. mandryka

    mandryka pfm Member

    Decántolo looks good and I'd be tempted if someone who knows about Spanish wine could make some recommendations from there.
  14. twotone

    twotone pfm Member

    Just buy anything from Rioja from the likes of Muriel, Cune, Ramon Bilbao et-al and go for a reserva not a grand reserve anything from 2015 really but you’ll struggle to find some IMO.

    Personally I like plain old Rioja Joven or Rioja crianza.

    I posted previously but the Muriel 2019 is really excellent from the coop for £6.50 I’ve been buying it all week.

    I’ve two bottles of the imperial.[]=Red&manufacturers[]=CUNE&tri=4

    The harvest ratings of the D.O.Ca. Rioja granted by its Regulating Council since its founding in 1926 are the following:

    • 1925 Muy buena
    • 1926 Mediana
    • 1927 Mediana
    • 1928 Muy buena
    • 1929 Normal
    • 1930 Mediana
    • 1931 Muy buena
    • 1932 Normal
    • 1933 Normal
    • 1934 Excelente
    • 1935 Muy buena
    • 1936 Normal
    • 1937 Normal
    • 1938 Mediana
    • 1939 Normal
    • 1940 Normal
    • 1941 Buena
    • 1942 Muy buena
    • 1943 Buena
    • 1944 Buena
    • 1945 Buena
    • 1946 Normal
    • 1947 Muy buena
    • 1948 Excelente
    • 1949 Muy buena
    • 1950 Normal
    • 1951 Normal
    • 1952 Excelente
    • 1953 Mediana
    • 1954 Buena
    • 1955 Excelente
    • 1956 Buena
    • 1957 Normal
    • 1958 Excelente
    • 1959 Muy buena
    • 1960 Buena
    • 1961 Buena
    • 1962 Muy buena
    • 1963 Normal
    • 1964 Excelente
    • 1965 Mediana
    • 1966 Normal
    • 1967 Normal
    • 1968 Muy buena
    • 1969 Normal
    • 1970 Muy buena
    • 1971 Mediana
    • 1972 Mediana
    • 1973 Buena
    • 1974 Buena
    • 1975 Muy buena
    • 1976 Buena
    • 1977 Normal
    • 1978 Muy buena
    • 1979 Normal
    • 1980 Buena
    • 1981 Muy buena
    • 1982 Excelente
    • 1983 Buena
    • 1984 Normal
    • 1985 Buena
    • 1986 Buena
    • 1987 Muy buena
    • 1988 Buena
    • 1989 Buena
    • 1990 Buena
    • 1991 Muy buena
    • 1992 Buena
    • 1993 Buena
    • 1994 Excelente
    • 1995 Excelente
    • 1996 Muy buena
    • 1997 Buena
    • 1998 Muy buena
    • 1999 Buena
    • 2000 Buena
    • 2001 Excelente
    • 2002 Buena
    • 2003 Buena
    • 2004 Excelente
    • 2005 Excelente
    • 2006 Muy buena
    • 2007 Muy buena
    • 2008 Muy buena
    • 2009 Muy buena
    • 2010 Excelente
    • 2011 Excelente
    • 2012 Muy buena
    • 2013 Buena
    • 2014 Buena
    • 2015 Muy buena
    • 2016 Muy buena
    • 2017 Muy buena
    • 2018 Buena
    • 2019 Excelente
    • 2020 Muy buena
    • 2021 Muy buena
    PsB and mandryka like this.
  15. BTC3

    BTC3 pfm Member

    As ever, a matter of budget and taste. I prefer Ribera del Duero and Priorat over Rioja. I find them smoother, with a broader range of flavours than many of the Riojas that are regularly available, but there are some excellent ones of those. In the £40/50 mark, Alión is fantastic; and it’s bigger siblings, for (a lot) more cash, are also great. The suggestions above are also good, but I went off Ramon Bilbao some time ago. Other names to look out for are Tondonia, Marqués de Cáceres, Marqués de Murrieta, the “numbered” Rioja Alta wines (890, 904); LAN’s “a mano” and “Culmen” are very good. From Ribera, I’ve recently enjoyed Pago de los Capellanes, and Pago de Carraovejas.
    At the start of lockdown I was introduced to a wine from Madrid. I was born and brought up there, and at the time the wine was rough, not to say rubbish. However, this stuff, from Bodegas Licinia was eye opening. I sent @Marchbanks a bottle to try, and he might remember whether it was worth chasing down? Toro is another region to explore, Numanthia is, I think, one of the vineyards to look into.

    That’s my take on reds. For whites, which I rarely drink, I tend to go for Albariño, but white Riojas can be fantastic. I’ve recently had Tondonia blanco 2005 and 8, and some 2018 Flor de Muga (Muga reds are also worth looking at).
    For rosé, I think there’s a Tondonia which would be worth looking at, and I think we’ve discussed Pícaro del Águila - I know I offered to get you some if I did, but I’m afraid I haven’t bought much wine recently - which is worth looking into. It’s a clarete, a mix of red and white; I’m sure there must be others out there, but I haven’t looked very closely.

    Lots to explore and enjoy.
    mandryka and twotone like this.
  16. Weekender

    Weekender pfm Member

    Another vote for Muga fwiw
  17. twotone

    twotone pfm Member

    I've a couple of bottles of Tondonia too, the 2009 reserva, I paid £29 a bottle from Majestic.

    I love Spanish wines especially the old fashioned reds.

    Great post above BTW.
  18. mandryka

    mandryka pfm Member

    Thanks for taking so much trouble here. There’s a Priorat selection on Decántolo which I’m very tempted to try. The problem with the numbered Riojas is the price is slightly higher than I want to pay - I want to keep it down to about £30 max a bottle.

    Thanks to you also. If I can find it I’ll certainly try the Muriel. The question I have about the Rioja vintages list is this: don’t they all really benefit from a lot of bottle ageing - like 15 years?

    The only Rioja I have, and I like it very much, is a crianza, this

    Just a pleasant, easy to handle, well made wine. A bit of complexity, drinkable straight after you open the bottle, fine the next day, nothing challenging.
  19. PsB

    PsB Citizen of Nowhere™

    I’m addition to the good Riojas mentioned above, we* have tasted Marqués de Riscal over the years, following a recommendation from a Spanish colleague in the late 90s (either Reserva or Gran Reserva). It went through a bit of a bad patch 10-15 years ago (sort of thin) but now seems to be making a comeback.

    *my wife is the real Rioja aficionada
  20. twotone

    twotone pfm Member

    Rioja is a bit like port in so far as the bodegas/wineries do all of the storage so when the wines are released they’re more or less ready to drink.

    Least that’s my understanding.

    Winemaking and styles
    A distinct characteristic of Rioja wine is the effect of oak aging. First introduced in the early 18th century by Bordeaux influenced winemakers, the use of oak and the pronounced vanilla flavors in the wines has been a virtual trademark of the region though some modern winemakers are experimenting with making wines less influenced by oak. Originally French oak was used but as the cost of the barrels increased many bodegas began to buy American oak planks and fashion them into barrels at Spanish cooperages in a style more closely resembling the French method. This included hand splitting the wood, rather than sawing, and allowing the planks time to dry and "season" in the outdoors versus drying in the kiln.[9] In recent times, more bodegas have begun using French oak and many will age wines in both American and French oak for blending purposes.[10]

    In the past, it was not uncommon for some bodegas to age their red wines for 15–20 years or even more before their release. One notable example of this the Marqués de Murrieta which released its 1942 vintage gran reserva in 1983 after 41 years of aging. Today most bodegas have shifted their winemaking focus to wines that are ready to drink sooner, with the top wines typically aging for 4–8 years prior to release, though some traditionalists still age longer.[9] The typical bodega owns anywhere from 10,000 to 40,000 oak barrels.[11]

    The use of oak in white wine has declined significantly in recent times when before the norm was traditionally 2–5 years in oak. This created slightly oxidized wines with flavors of caramel, coffee, and roasted nuts that did not appeal to a large market of consumers with some of the more negative examples showing characteristics of rubber and petrol flavors. Today the focus of white wine makers has been to enhance the vibrancy and fruit flavors of the wine.[11]

    Some winemakers utilize a derivative of carbonic maceration in which whole clusters are placed in large open vats allowed to ferment inside the individual grape berries, without the addition of yeast, for a few days before they are crushed.[3]

    In the 1960s, Bodegas Rioja Santiago developed the first bottled version of the wine punch Sangría, based on Rioja wine, and exhibited it at the 1964 New York World's Fair. An import subsidiary of Pepsi Cola purchased the rights to the wine and began marketing it worldwide
    Last edited: Aug 7, 2022
    PsB likes this.

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