It's all codswallop, the indefinable subjective language of marketeers. Some people believe the LP12 is the greatest source component ever created, even now. Anyway, all the flat response balderdash was debunked for me when I first heard a top of the (Linn/Naim) range, six-pack active Isobarik system making very heavy weather of a (don't judge me) Level 42 track. The bassline was completely indecipherable mush.
Chris Frankland
- Thread starter Patcam
- Start date
It's all codswallop, the indefinable subjective language of marketeers. Some people believe the LP12 is the greatest source component ever created, even now. Anyway, all the flat response balderdash was debunked for me when I first heard a top of the (Linn/Naim) range, six-pack active Isobarik system making very heavy weather of a (don't judge me) Level 42 track. The bassline was completely indecipherable mush.
Suffolk Tony
Aim low, achieve your goals, avoid disappointment.
You do hi-fi enthusiasts a great disservice. Some might have blindly followed the "advice" given in the mags of the time but for most of us we were interested in the opinions from the reviewers enough to explore the recommended systems. For myself, after a frustrating few years with esoteric valve gear from the likes of Audio Research, then big expensive mega-amps from Krell, Oracle and SME turntables, it was a revelation to listen to Naim and Linn.
Maybe there's better stuff out there but for turntables, ampilification and speakers I've really had no desire to move to something else, and I've many friends who've gone down a similar road.
Arkless Electronics
Trade: Amp design and repairs.
I reckon the flat earth era had a very negative effect on UK hi fi! Loads of companies making much better equipment than the dubious products of Linn and Naim at that time went out of business because of the marketing-advertising-dealer-manufacturer cabal...
Do you remember those patterns that looked just like pretty patterns until you stared long enough and suddenly you could see a 3D picture of dolphins or an eagle or somesuch. I felt that way when I first got the prat thing. It's not codswallop at all.
Joe Hutch
Mate of the bloke
I never could see the sodding picture, however long I stared!
Suffolk Tony
Aim low, achieve your goals, avoid disappointment.
What better equipment?
A business plan may well contain monies for both the fabrication of the kit and some set aside for advertising the kit, otherwise who will know that the kit exists let alone available for demo?
Could this be why some kit makers went to the wall and some have survived since the last millennium?
Could this be why some kit makers went to the wall and some have survived since the last millennium?
Arkless Electronics
Trade: Amp design and repairs.
IMHO most of Linn and Naims rivals at similar price points were superior. Some small companies went bust due to their domination of the market and many others, some still with us today, had years of just ticking over due to sales lost to the cabal. Also of course lots of large companies from abroad had sales pushed right down due to the flat earth madness. Big Japanese DD turntables are now much sought after but you couldn't give them away at one time due to Haymarket magazines.... I well remember the days when someone writing in asking which budget cassette deck they should buy would be told "first you need an LP12 to make sure you are recording from the best source...."
Accurate timing is obviously important. The LP12 isn't especially good at it, though. It's improved slightly since the 1980s, but it's still iffy engineering, and still enclosed in a "retro" resonant wooden box. Linn haven't learned anything from the competition, because Linn don't take the competition seriously: they still believe they are the only game in town.
There's none so blind....
Suffolk Tony
Aim low, achieve your goals, avoid disappointment.
What better equipnment?
Suffolk Tony
Aim low, achieve your goals, avoid disappointment.
That's IYOO of course Mr Arkless. I didn't find them so, and I remember my friends who, based on the false idea that the wonderfully-engineered japanese turntables, tuners and amplifiers were accoustically superior to their british counterparts, sold off their equipment in favour of what turned out to be rather less than grand.
Julf
Facts are our friends
And what causes inaccurate timing? How do you measure it?
Turntables: Notts Analogue, SME, Avid, and many more.
Speakers: almost everything.
Iffy engineering: belt drive plus a bouncy suspension. There's w&f data available on the interwebs.
MikeMA
pfm Member
All so true. It seemed to me quite obvious at the time what was going on, and the reason why to this day I wouldn't cross the road to listen or even look at Linn or Naim stuff. Manufacturers like Quad had a really hard time which they didn't deserve, and effectively whent bust because of it.
Robert
Tapehead
None whatsoever.
it's simply what happens when you take engineering and art, then subject it to market forces.
All of society's ills from starvation to dodgy audio reviews can be traced directly to market forces and capital.
Best we not go there in the audio room
Arkless Electronics
Trade: Amp design and repairs.
Indeed. And any of the Quad current dumping amps will easily beat a NAP250. Especially with a few simple mods in the case of early 405's.
Ariston would have had something to say about the LP12 I believe.... if they were still around...
Robert
Tapehead
I think most Naim amplifiers are perfectly fine, as is the LP12 in its many forms. They just didn't deserve elevation above other competing kit.
On the other hand things like the Linn Basik cartridge, Index and Kan 1 were just plain poor and easily bettered by a raft of competition.
Things like the Nait 1 were just crazy. People 'want' a cheap Naim, so what shall we do. Oh I know, lets stick this primitive 15w amplifier circuit in a tiny box with shitty controls and flog it to teh audiophiles for a premium. Then they can have a Naim. All they really needed was a £100 Rotel or NAD, which were better.
Nothing wrong sonically with a NAP250 to be fair. Or the rest of the range for that matter.
They were just flat, low distortion power amps like many others.
The Issue is that I'd bet good money that nobody could tell one apart form the JVC AX4 I'm playing at the moment
On the other hand things like the Linn Basik cartridge, Index and Kan 1 were just plain poor and easily bettered by a raft of competition.
Things like the Nait 1 were just crazy. People 'want' a cheap Naim, so what shall we do. Oh I know, lets stick this primitive 15w amplifier circuit in a tiny box with shitty controls and flog it to teh audiophiles for a premium. Then they can have a Naim. All they really needed was a £100 Rotel or NAD, which were better.
Nothing wrong sonically with a NAP250 to be fair. Or the rest of the range for that matter.
They were just flat, low distortion power amps like many others.
The Issue is that I'd bet good money that nobody could tell one apart form the JVC AX4 I'm playing at the moment