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Children in another country - need advice and opinions

droodzilla

droodzilla

pfm Member
Bit of a long shot this, but any thoughts on the situation described below? I'm asking for a friend of my sister - let's call this friend Alice...

Around 18 years ago, Alice married an Iraqi in the UK and had three boys here with him, all of whom are UK citizens.

After 10 years, Alice's partner persuaded her to move with the family to Iraq. Alice is from a poor family and her partner has good connections in Iraq so I guess it seemed like an attractive option at the time.

Approximately 8 years ago they were divorced in Iraq. Alice claims that her partner abused both her, and the boys. She signed papers in Iraq and returned to the UK. Her partner refused to let the boys come with her and, by then, she was desperate to get away.

Since then, Alice has been trying her children back to the UK. As\far as I can tell, she has had advice from at least a couple of solicitors but both dropped the matter when they were unable to secure legal aid. Apparently, one complication is that the papers she signed in Iraq surrendered any claim on the children. Of course, she did not know this at the time; she thought they were just finalising the divorce.

It's hard to say but Alice might have approached her local MP (Toby Perkins, Chesterfield) about the matter. Or possibly, her family did. Either way, the MP did not think he could help.

My impression is that Alice does not get on well with her family, so there is not much support there.

Anyway, any ideas, thoughts, suggestions? I'm drawing a blank apart from, maybe, try another solicitor or approach the local MP again with an update. I guess these cases are almost impossible to resolve, but maybe someone here can think of something I've missed?
 
This sounds to me entirely an internal Iraqi civil matter.

If there is a means of raising some limited funds, then perhaps consult with a reputable Iraqi based solicitor for an opinion?

This is almost certainly a situation that won't be resolved easily, quickly or inexpensively. Maybe just stay in contact with the children and see what happens in the future?
 
How old are the children? When they reach adulthood (age 18 in Iraq), what could stop them from joining their Mother in the UK?
 
Hook said:
How old are the children? When they reach adulthood (age 18 in Iraq), what could stop them from joining their Mother in the UK?
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It’s their dad that will stop them , that’s how he’s ended up with them in the first place as he took their passports & wouldn’t allow Alice to take her kids with her
 
Hook said:
How old are the children? When they reach adulthood (age 18 in Iraq), what could stop them from joining their Mother in the UK?
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Unfortunately their father is brainwashing the children, & Alice feels that as time goes on , her children are getting older , but she’s desperate to get get them back asap so she can still enjoy them while their still young enough , they are 14,12,10 I believe x
 
Thanks, I hope so to x
simon g said:
This sounds to me entirely an internal Iraqi civil matter.

If there is a means of raising some limited funds, then perhaps consult with a reputable Iraqi based solicitor for an opinion?

This is almost certainly a situation that won't be resolved easily, quickly or inexpensively. Maybe just stay in contact with the children and see what happens in the future?
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hi there , it is quite a complicated situation, but Alice doesn’t know which way to turn , she’s been made to feel that because she hasn’t got the funds for a Solistors she’s being let down by everyone, she’s so depressed & desperate to see her kids ,& doesn’t know who to turn to for help x
 
I cannot see any legal action in the UK would be recognised in Iraq. I cannot see the Iraqi legal system would entertain any claim made there. The Foreign Office has no power anywhere these days. Sorry to be so downbeat.

If she were able to visit Iraq would the father allow her see her children? Could she see her children remotely - zoom or similar?
 
droodzilla said:
Anyway, any ideas, thoughts, suggestions?
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I’m sorry to hear this story. I was almost in a similar situation myself a few years ago.

I remember one scene when the police were called. After things had calmed down, I got talking to one of the coppers. It turned out he was recently divorced himself and saw some similarities with my case. So I asked him for advice, figuring that by means of his profession, he might have a wise and practical answer. He basically told me to always put the children first. Gradually that became a central organising thought which helped me through a time of chaos.

To Alice, if there is not much she can do to change her current situation, she can at least change the way she thinks about it. Given time, that will lead to a better place even if not by the most obvious path.

Couple of suggestions:
1. Reach out to any friends who can empathise with her situation
2. Get contact with her children (or even via another Iraqi family member) and try to find small ways to make an increasing contribution to their lives

I am assuming she is not able to go to Iraq and either get help there or take the children back into the U.K. with their passports…if this is the case then it’s better to forget all about legal procedures, put any anger on the back burners and think more long term.
 
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There is some UK Government information here on Iraq child abduction. I know, it's not strictly abduction because of Alice's divorce agreement and you may need seek redress on that part of the divorce. It sounds as though Alice would need to go through a legal process in Iraq:

Iraqi Personal Status laws will apply if one or both spouses are Muslim, and custody disputes will be decided in the Personal Status Court. If the parents are of another faith then the rules set by their own religious authorities will apply. Under Iraqi Personal Status law, the mother has the right to custody of both male and female children until the age of eighteen. If the mother remarries or if the father proves to a Family Court that the mother is negligent the court can then decide not to give custody to the mother.

It typically takes three to six months for custody to be decided through the Iraqi courts. Appeals are possible and usually take approximately three months. The parent who does not have custody is entitled to contact with the child.

UK or other foreign custody orders are subject to the approval of the Iraqi court.

N.B. This section constitutes general information on the Iraqi system. For detailed information and advice on how the law may apply to the circumstances of individual cases, independent legal advice should be sought in Iraq.
 
droodzilla said:
Since then, Alice has been trying her children back to the UK. As\far as I can tell, she has had advice from at least a couple of solicitors but both dropped the matter when they were unable to secure legal aid.
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Just a thought, many home insurance policies have legal cover up to, typically, £50k or £100k for bringing or defending a legal claim. Does Alice have a home insurance policy (contents, not buildings)? If so, check the schedule document to see if it might cover this.
 
Suggi said:
He’ll probably want to kill her as bad as that sounds , she has to flee for her own safety as it was , through physical & mental abuse of the worst kind , she’s just at a loss where to turn now x
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Given what you say, I doubt there can be any solution.
 
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