paulfromcamden
Baffled
Your Mum was living in Greenwich Village, dating Martin Sheen, and smoked a doobie with Charles Mingus?!
I think you win this week's Coolest Mum Award hands down.
Charles Mingus in Europe, 1964
- Thread starter Marchbanks
- Start date
I think you win this week's Coolest Mum Award hands down.
Tim Jones
pfm Member
Thanks. She also dated Chaz Chandler, ex-bassist with the Animals and a fellow Geordie who, at the time, was apparently raving about this new guitarist - one Jimi Hendrix - he'd just started managing.
She died in 2016.
paulfromcamden
Baffled
She sounds like an amazing woman.
Marchbanks
Hat and Beard member
In our 1964 timeline it’s Charles’ 42nd birthday. He’ll be spending a good deal of it travelling from Lyon to Zurich, where the band are performing tonight. Exactly sixty years on, I’ve just woken up on his 102nd and am listening to Peggy’s Blue Skylight (rather confusingly for an inexperienced time traveller it was recorded in Paris in October 1970 - it’s hard enough being in two places at once, let alone three) courtesy of WKCR, who have begun their 24-hour Mingus birthday broadcast. You can find links their stream here and here.
A couple of provisos - there’s a student occupation going on at Columbia University where WKCR is based and currently their normal programming is giving way to frequent news updates from the campus. Secondly, I’ve been suffering a lot of rebuffering on their streams for the last few days. Whether the two are related, I don’t know. But the music is somewhat discontinuous, and it’s probably best to treat it as a background to your day rather than a total immersion.
A couple of provisos - there’s a student occupation going on at Columbia University where WKCR is based and currently their normal programming is giving way to frequent news updates from the campus. Secondly, I’ve been suffering a lot of rebuffering on their streams for the last few days. Whether the two are related, I don’t know. But the music is somewhat discontinuous, and it’s probably best to treat it as a background to your day rather than a total immersion.
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Marchbanks
Hat and Beard member
Things I know about Wuppertal.
The recording is split across two separate albums, Mingus in Europe Vol. 1 and Vol. 2. Because they were first released on vinyl, fitting tracks into the space available was originally more important than preserving the correct running order. Now expanded on CD, the vinyl order is kept and the ‘bonus’ tracks are added at the end of each album, so it’s all a bit of a dog’s dinner.
Of course, the band is still down to five. ‘Johnny Coles is still in hospital in Paris. We haven’t been able to get him out’ says Charles, making it sound more like his experiences in Bellevue than treatment of a perforated ulcer.
Fables of Faubus starts Volume 1, and at 37 minutes long takes up most of the original vinyl version. Clifford gets a very lengthy solo in several phases. After the halfway point things really stretch out, and we pass through a twelve-bar blues, an eastern-tinged episode and a lovely lengthy ‘conversation’ between bass and bass clarinet with Mingus and Dolphy mimicking speech patterns as on the ‘Charles Mingus Presents’ album. I laugh every time I hear Mingus play ‘Dol-phy?’ and Eric reply ‘Yes..?’ Following that we have a gentle interlude with I Can’t Get Started, the first time I’ve heard a Mingus/Dolphy (on flute) duet on these tour recordings.
On to Volume 2, and Orange Was the Colour of Her Dress still sounds a bit tentative with Jaki covering the trumpet lines. It meanders peacefully as the River Wupper until Eric goes roaring over it like a suspended train. Then we get Sophisticated Lady followed by ATFW (which is preceded by Mingus’ ‘start of set’ announcement. I told you the order was screwed up…)
The final two tracks seem to fit together, though. The band appears to get a second wind. Peggy’s Blue Skylight is terrific, played with real gusto - especially by Eric, on alto for a change, and So Long Eric turns into a full scale rave-up. I can’t help thinking that the end-of-term feeling is starting to take effect. Clifford and Eric sound like they might be auditioning for an R’n’B band.
So, pretty good, but not one of the very best. Still essential though! You need these versions of Faubus, I Can’t Get Started and So Long Eric.
Postscript:
I wrote the preamble (the Wuppertal bit) to this yesterday. I knew I was going to be running short of time tonight to listen to the CDs and write my spiel as I was first going to see a Django-tinged trio. This one, in fact.
At half-time I found myself talking to the bass player at the refuelling counter. I asked him what he thought of Mingus. He said he particularly admired his arrangements. I told him it was exactly the 60th anniversary of the European tour with Dolphy. He said he’d heard about that - and what a band they were.
‘Tonight they are in Wuppertal!’ I told him. He smiled. ‘Ah, Wuppertal. Have you been there?’ I said that I hadn’t, but would love to see the… But he was ahead of me. ‘There’s a wonderful monorail train there…’ I decided it was probably best not to tell him about Tuffi or OMSI-2. There was no need to add another to the long list of people who think I’m some kind of near-certifiable obsessive.
But as if that wasn’t enough, he then turned it into the pfm chance meeting to end them all. ‘I saw Peter Brötzmann there a few years ago. With Heather Leigh on slide guitar.’ He grinned widely. ‘It was fantastic! That’s where he lived, Wuppertal.’
So that makes six things I know about Wuppertal…
On to Stuttgart, for Sunday night’s final known recording of the tour. I didn’t know if I could make it there until this morning, but my copy has now arrived in the nick of time after spending a leisurely week in Langley Distribution Centre (a.k.a. Royal Mail’s black hole.)
- The city has a rather wonderful suspended railway, running along the course of the River Wupper.
- Wim Wenders shot some of Alice in the Cities there, including a scene on the suspended railway.
- An elephant named Tuffi, travelling on the suspended railway as a publicity stunt, broke through a door and fell out into the river (and survived.)
- I learned this today - if you have a copy of the bus-driving simulation program OMSI-2 you can purchase a Wuppertal add-on which allows you to drive a virtual train on the suspended railway. This is the most convincing argument for owning a computer that I have ever heard.
- Two hundred metres from the suspended railway is the Wuppertal Stadthaus. That’s where we are going now to hear the Charles Mingus ex-Sextet play in our exactly-60-years-ago timeline, on April 26, 1964.
The recording is split across two separate albums, Mingus in Europe Vol. 1 and Vol. 2. Because they were first released on vinyl, fitting tracks into the space available was originally more important than preserving the correct running order. Now expanded on CD, the vinyl order is kept and the ‘bonus’ tracks are added at the end of each album, so it’s all a bit of a dog’s dinner.
Of course, the band is still down to five. ‘Johnny Coles is still in hospital in Paris. We haven’t been able to get him out’ says Charles, making it sound more like his experiences in Bellevue than treatment of a perforated ulcer.
Fables of Faubus starts Volume 1, and at 37 minutes long takes up most of the original vinyl version. Clifford gets a very lengthy solo in several phases. After the halfway point things really stretch out, and we pass through a twelve-bar blues, an eastern-tinged episode and a lovely lengthy ‘conversation’ between bass and bass clarinet with Mingus and Dolphy mimicking speech patterns as on the ‘Charles Mingus Presents’ album. I laugh every time I hear Mingus play ‘Dol-phy?’ and Eric reply ‘Yes..?’ Following that we have a gentle interlude with I Can’t Get Started, the first time I’ve heard a Mingus/Dolphy (on flute) duet on these tour recordings.
On to Volume 2, and Orange Was the Colour of Her Dress still sounds a bit tentative with Jaki covering the trumpet lines. It meanders peacefully as the River Wupper until Eric goes roaring over it like a suspended train. Then we get Sophisticated Lady followed by ATFW (which is preceded by Mingus’ ‘start of set’ announcement. I told you the order was screwed up…)
The final two tracks seem to fit together, though. The band appears to get a second wind. Peggy’s Blue Skylight is terrific, played with real gusto - especially by Eric, on alto for a change, and So Long Eric turns into a full scale rave-up. I can’t help thinking that the end-of-term feeling is starting to take effect. Clifford and Eric sound like they might be auditioning for an R’n’B band.
So, pretty good, but not one of the very best. Still essential though! You need these versions of Faubus, I Can’t Get Started and So Long Eric.
Postscript:
I wrote the preamble (the Wuppertal bit) to this yesterday. I knew I was going to be running short of time tonight to listen to the CDs and write my spiel as I was first going to see a Django-tinged trio. This one, in fact.
At half-time I found myself talking to the bass player at the refuelling counter. I asked him what he thought of Mingus. He said he particularly admired his arrangements. I told him it was exactly the 60th anniversary of the European tour with Dolphy. He said he’d heard about that - and what a band they were.
‘Tonight they are in Wuppertal!’ I told him. He smiled. ‘Ah, Wuppertal. Have you been there?’ I said that I hadn’t, but would love to see the… But he was ahead of me. ‘There’s a wonderful monorail train there…’ I decided it was probably best not to tell him about Tuffi or OMSI-2. There was no need to add another to the long list of people who think I’m some kind of near-certifiable obsessive.
But as if that wasn’t enough, he then turned it into the pfm chance meeting to end them all. ‘I saw Peter Brötzmann there a few years ago. With Heather Leigh on slide guitar.’ He grinned widely. ‘It was fantastic! That’s where he lived, Wuppertal.’
So that makes six things I know about Wuppertal…
On to Stuttgart, for Sunday night’s final known recording of the tour. I didn’t know if I could make it there until this morning, but my copy has now arrived in the nick of time after spending a leisurely week in Langley Distribution Centre (a.k.a. Royal Mail’s black hole.)
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Sean K
pfm Member
I have a nice french pressing, I'll try and stick it on tonight and let you know, although my proneness to distraction being what it is...Tonight we’ve moved a few hundred metres into the Theatre des Champs-Elysées. From last night’s gig it’s down Avenue Wagram to the Arc de Triomphe, a quick detour beneath to pay our regards to the Unknown Soldier and then turn left.
If you only have a recording of one performance from the 1964 Europe tour the chances are it’s this one.
What’s more, if you have a vinyl copy of the Great Concert of Charles Mingus, the first part of the version of So Long Eric that you hear was recorded last night, at the Salle Wagram! The beginning of tonight’s was deemed unfit for release due to technical deficiencies until the CD release. Thus I assume Coles is present on the vinyl version as he was playing at the start. The edit between the two is apparently at the start of Dolphy’s solo. Perhaps someone with a vinyl copy can confirm?
Brilliant thread!
paulfromcamden
Baffled
Not for the first time I completely forgot about yesterday's gig and missed it!
I never knew Brotzmann lived in Wuppertal. For some reason I always imagined him living in the woods somewhere, painting, smoking cigars and listening to old swing records. It's hard to picture him catching the monorail with his groceries.
I'll set off on the scooter now. With a good wind I might just make it to Stuttgart in time...
I never knew Brotzmann lived in Wuppertal. For some reason I always imagined him living in the woods somewhere, painting, smoking cigars and listening to old swing records. It's hard to picture him catching the monorail with his groceries.
I'll set off on the scooter now. With a good wind I might just make it to Stuttgart in time...
Marchbanks
Hat and Beard member
Never one to shirk a challenge I’ve spent all morning trying to find a photo linking Peter Brötzmann to the Schwebebahn. No luck - but I did see this artwork on his website…
…and here’s a photo of the Ohligsmühle Bridge (see train on right) which was constructed in 2002. Do you think that’s sufficient evidence of association to stand up in court?
Hope the journey’s going well. See you later!
paulfromcamden
Baffled
Probably shouldn't have taken the scooter on the autobahn but I've made it to Stuttgart intact and have a very large stein charged with Hofbräu. Prost!
I wonder where Marchbanks has got to? Still riding the Wuppertaler Schwebebahn no doubt...
I wonder where Marchbanks has got to? Still riding the Wuppertaler Schwebebahn no doubt...
Marchbanks
Hat and Beard member
I’m here, I’m here! Sorry, I forgot about the timezone difference between Stuttgart-London and Stuttgart-Warwickshire. And I was outside admiring the scooter with the 7-speaker Bose system and the 8-track of Autobahn still sitting in the player.
Yesterday was a day off for me. Yes, a few more trips on the Schwebebahn, then on to Düsseldorf, where Ralf had invited me for a guided tour round Kling Klang. It was very thoughtful of him - I wonder how he knew I was in the country? Or how he got my carefully-guarded email address? No such luck for the band - between Wuppertal and Stuttgart they fitted in a night in Frankfurt, sadly unchronicled.
As I said above, this album only arrived on my doorstep yesterday. I gave it a good Knosti-ing, but it’s still fairly noisy with pops and crackles. Perhaps unsurprisingly, since it’s the only one of these recordings that Discogs is sniffy about and labels as ‘unofficial - sale verboten!’ I see Paul’s has the word ‘stereo’ on the front, although I bet it isn’t - but it does show there are at least two versions of the cover, at least. So let’s load up the SL-10…
The SQ is OK, if unremarkable. Jaki’s piano suffers most. So Long Eric is up first. Clifford is terrific - he really seems to have loosened up during the tour - and Charles’ solo is lovely. Eric starts by beaming in a transmission of bleeps and burps from Planet Dolphy then slips into lightning legato. Towards the end Jaki backs him in stride style. It almost feels like one of Zappa’s exercises in xenochrocy. Charles and Dannie start a duet and - end of side 1. Oh well.
Aha - it continues as a hidden track at the start of side two - but only briefly. After a few moments, the theme and that’s it. Orange Was the Colour has a jarring edit into the solos, but Clifford goes for it again (he’s having a good night) and Eric alternates between lyricism and - er - Eric. Early fade again, but this one isn’t coming back. A pleasant Mingus/Dolphy duet is entitled These Foolish Things, but I’m not sure it really is. There’s just a brief snatch of the melody in the middle.
On side 3 Peggy’s Blue Skylight is fine, but sort of comes and goes - then Meditations begins and gets off to a rousing start with Eric going first. Then aaargh! end of side! But side 4 promises another 21 minutes…
…which seems to fall away halfway through, as (IMO) happened a lot on the tour. Whereas the Cornell version hit you with wave after wave, the European performances became contemplative and elegiac for the last ten or more minutes. I’m in no doubt that was an artistic decision on Mingus’ part, but I wonder why he thought it was an improvement. I see the Cornell version was a good deal longer too, at 31 minutes compared to 20-25. Perhaps it was the fortissimo sections that were taken out. I must go back and listen to it again to check my memory isn’t playing tricks on me.
On first listen - first half great, second half pretty good. Did you enjoy it, @paulfromcamden? We need to find a bar in which to discuss it in great detail. Now, of course, I’m tempted to go for the CD called Stuttgart Meditations which claims to have extra material and extended versions. But as we are in the murky world of ‘unofficial recordings’ here, who knows?
That’s it as far as we can go, as listeners, sixty years on. The band has a final gig tomorrow in Hamburg, where - to bookend these posts neatly - the currently chart-topping, US-conquering Beatles had had a residency at the Star-Club only sixteen months earlier. However, no recording is known of the 29 April performance - as yet. So we must bid goodbye to Charles, Clifford, Jaki, Dannie and Johnny - and of course, sadly, so long Eric.
Yesterday was a day off for me. Yes, a few more trips on the Schwebebahn, then on to Düsseldorf, where Ralf had invited me for a guided tour round Kling Klang. It was very thoughtful of him - I wonder how he knew I was in the country? Or how he got my carefully-guarded email address? No such luck for the band - between Wuppertal and Stuttgart they fitted in a night in Frankfurt, sadly unchronicled.
As I said above, this album only arrived on my doorstep yesterday. I gave it a good Knosti-ing, but it’s still fairly noisy with pops and crackles. Perhaps unsurprisingly, since it’s the only one of these recordings that Discogs is sniffy about and labels as ‘unofficial - sale verboten!’ I see Paul’s has the word ‘stereo’ on the front, although I bet it isn’t - but it does show there are at least two versions of the cover, at least. So let’s load up the SL-10…
The SQ is OK, if unremarkable. Jaki’s piano suffers most. So Long Eric is up first. Clifford is terrific - he really seems to have loosened up during the tour - and Charles’ solo is lovely. Eric starts by beaming in a transmission of bleeps and burps from Planet Dolphy then slips into lightning legato. Towards the end Jaki backs him in stride style. It almost feels like one of Zappa’s exercises in xenochrocy. Charles and Dannie start a duet and - end of side 1. Oh well.
Aha - it continues as a hidden track at the start of side two - but only briefly. After a few moments, the theme and that’s it. Orange Was the Colour has a jarring edit into the solos, but Clifford goes for it again (he’s having a good night) and Eric alternates between lyricism and - er - Eric. Early fade again, but this one isn’t coming back. A pleasant Mingus/Dolphy duet is entitled These Foolish Things, but I’m not sure it really is. There’s just a brief snatch of the melody in the middle.
On side 3 Peggy’s Blue Skylight is fine, but sort of comes and goes - then Meditations begins and gets off to a rousing start with Eric going first. Then aaargh! end of side! But side 4 promises another 21 minutes…
…which seems to fall away halfway through, as (IMO) happened a lot on the tour. Whereas the Cornell version hit you with wave after wave, the European performances became contemplative and elegiac for the last ten or more minutes. I’m in no doubt that was an artistic decision on Mingus’ part, but I wonder why he thought it was an improvement. I see the Cornell version was a good deal longer too, at 31 minutes compared to 20-25. Perhaps it was the fortissimo sections that were taken out. I must go back and listen to it again to check my memory isn’t playing tricks on me.
On first listen - first half great, second half pretty good. Did you enjoy it, @paulfromcamden? We need to find a bar in which to discuss it in great detail. Now, of course, I’m tempted to go for the CD called Stuttgart Meditations which claims to have extra material and extended versions. But as we are in the murky world of ‘unofficial recordings’ here, who knows?
That’s it as far as we can go, as listeners, sixty years on. The band has a final gig tomorrow in Hamburg, where - to bookend these posts neatly - the currently chart-topping, US-conquering Beatles had had a residency at the Star-Club only sixteen months earlier. However, no recording is known of the 29 April performance - as yet. So we must bid goodbye to Charles, Clifford, Jaki, Dannie and Johnny - and of course, sadly, so long Eric.
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paulfromcamden
Baffled
@Marchbanks If it's any consolation my copy is pretty crackly too... as you've probably seen the same label put out a single album with the rest of the gig. Though it's unlikely quality control or editing will be any better...
What a fun trip it's been - thanks for letting me tag along!
What a fun trip it's been - thanks for letting me tag along!
Marchbanks
Hat and Beard member
I didn’t know that, so thanks. I’ll look out for it. That reinforces my suspicions that the CD is probably just a needle-drop with the pieces assembled in the correct order but still fading in and out where the vinyl does. Pops and crackles on bootleg vinyl are just about forgiveable, but I wouldn’t want them on a CD.