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CD's sound great, i forgot.

I have thousands of CDs, plus I buy and sell music, so I hate to think how many I’ve seen. I can think of hardly any that have failed through no fault of the end-user, the only ones that come to mind are the infamous UK PDO plant and just a couple of others, plus some early UK Nimbus suffer from sticky labels (which can’t be fixed to my knowledge, but they still play fine). Here are two of the worst examples of disc rot I’ve seen:

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The one on the left is a 1990 US full-silver Mercury Living Presence classical title, I’m not certain of the pressing plant. The silver playing surface has entirely vanished in the dark areas in the pic, you can see right through the disc. The one on the right is my copy of Aphex Twin Selected Ambient Works II on Warp, bought on release and pressed by PDO during their dodgy period. The brown corrosion seen on the edge renders the last track unplayable (it is a long CD). I emailed Warp to complain, but didn’t get a reply, so I just downloaded a lossless torrent to get that track!

This is an issue with just a couple of pressing plants. I have many, many far older CDs than either of these, e.g. some of the very first Japanese pressings from the early to mid 80s and they are absolutely fine with no indications of age issues whatsoever.

PS There was some truly idiotic and expensive audiophool trimming/balancing lathe device a few years that actually trimmed down the edges of CDs for no logical reason whatsoever. Such stupidity will obviously increase the chances of disc rot by impacting the edge seal of the disc and likely exposing the aluminium layer to oxidisation.
 
There was some truly idiotic and expensive audiophool trimming/balancing lathe device a few years that actually trimmed down the edges of CDs for no logical reason whatsoever. Such stupidity will obviously increase the chances of disc rot by impacting the edge seal of the disc and likely exposing the aluminium layer to oxidisation.

A seller in Bolton has one for sale on eBay. It's been there for quite a while...

http://rover.ebay.com/rover/1/710-5...0001&campid=5338728743&icep_item=293022620420
 
This site contains affiliate links for which pink fish media may be compensated.
The same can be said of any format..

CD was different. While claiming to introduce no distortion whatsoever, the format actually birthed an insidious new type of horror to pollute our music. Distortion which sounded nasty and foreign. Alien noise which had no place in the natural world. This was not the same as any other format. This was new, disastrous and unforgivable.
 
But if files are backed up ...

Indeed. However the snag then is - as I've been finding over the last week or two - the time (and money) taken to get new storage and make fresh dupe copies, synch, etc. It's not what I'd call "immortal" unless you also stretch the term to mean "well, you can buy another CD" to make CD "immortal"as well. :)
 
CD was different. While claiming to introduce no distortion whatsoever, the format actually birthed an insidious new type of horror to pollute our music. Distortion which sounded nasty and foreign. Alien noise which had no place in the natural world. This was not the same as any other format. This was new, disastrous and unforgivable.

Confusion between the container and the contained.

*Properly made* CDs don't "introduce distortion". If you have quantisation distortion in mind then correct application of dithering prevents it from happening.

If you mean "aliasing" then that also is due to incorrect signal processing, not the CD medium.

BTW the 'natural world' *is* quantised. So CD isn't particularly special in that respect.

I'd agree, though, that is was unforgivable or disgraceful just how many CD producers failed to understand the above and make recordings properly. But then the same music companies have found all kinds of ways to mess up LPs, tapes, etc, etc, over the years. So CD just fell victim to the same lack of care, etc.
 
BTW The BBC started using digital distribution (LPCM and NICAM) for audio long before CD appeared. Yet people listening to BBC on FM don't seem to have found it was a "new type of horror to pollute our music". Quite the opposite. :)
 
Confusion between the container and the contained.

I'm not confusing anything. I'm well aware of the fact that CD can sound fine if treated nicely. What I'm referring to is the horrible sounds many CD players made when plugged into established Hi-Fi system in an era when even a basic turntable sounded very pleasant. It's not about what it possible, but what buyers actually got.
 
I'm not confusing anything. I'm well aware of the fact that CD can sound fine if treated nicely. What I'm referring to is the horrible sounds many CD players made when plugged into established Hi-Fi system in an era when even a basic turntable sounded very pleasant. It's not about what it possible, but what buyers actually got.

Again, based largely on a misunderstanding. cf postings about how a system where some components had been 'tuned' to offset the effects of others meant that switching from something like a Linn LP system to a CD player lead to a dramatic change in sound quality. One which didn't happen when using a more 'neutral' set of amps and speakers.

Similarly, in cases where an amp input might be overloaded by the 2V levels from a CD player if designed for the lower levels common pre-CD-era.

So what people "got" might tell you more about what they'd 'had' up until then than it did about CD as a medium or CD players. By ignoring all this context your assertion was at best rather misleading.
 
cf postings about how a system where some components had been 'tuned' to offset the effects of others meant that switching from something like a Linn LP system to a CD player lead to a dramatic change in sound quality.

That's a rather simplistic way of looking at it and not at all representative. I've heard a lot of CD players and turntables over the years, from music centres to hi-end, and to say that CD sounded fine as long as it wasn't in a Linn/Naim system is rubbish. Characteristically, CD would either sound harsh and unnatural or smooth but dull and lacking in involvement. The depth of sound and ability to drag you into the music without being fatiguing which comes so easily to vinyl was virtually nonexistent in CD players. Sure, some sounded ok but for most of its sad life CD replay has been at least a few steps behind what vinyl could give you.

Do you own a turntable?
 
That's a rather simplistic way of looking at it and not at all representative. I've heard a lot of CD players and turntables over the years, from music centres to hi-end, and to say that CD sounded fine as long as it wasn't in a Linn/Naim system is rubbish.

Do you own a turntable?

However I didn't actually say "CD sounded fine as long it wasn't in a Linn/Main system". So you're knocking down your own Straw Man, not what I wrote. :)

Yes, I do own a turntable. Been using one since long before CD arrived, and still do. However that doesn't change what I actually said. Nor does it prevent me from enjoying both well made LPs and well made CDs. FWIW I've also heard many systems, etc. But, again, that wasn't my point.
 
Today, I am able to find CDs and LPs that sound surprisingly similar.

Thirty years ago, CD sounded so good chez moi - I had a Micromega player - and I realized how much I hated my cartridge of the time, a Shure V15IVMR. It just sounded so dull and boring. So then, I went hunting for a cart that could equal my CD player, and it turned out to be either a 1022GX or an Eroica LX.

I also now have a Soundsmith cartridge that sounds very good, almost CD-like.
 
That's a rather simplistic way of looking at it and not at all representative. I've heard a lot of CD players and turntables over the years, from music centres to hi-end, and to say that CD sounded fine as long as it wasn't in a Linn/Naim system is rubbish. Characteristically, CD would either sound harsh and unnatural or smooth but dull and lacking in involvement. The depth of sound and ability to drag you into the music without being fatiguing which comes so easily to vinyl was virtually nonexistent in CD players. Sure, some sounded ok but for most of its sad life CD replay has been at least a few steps behind what vinyl could give you.

Do you own a turntable?

Many people prefer CD to record players, you don't, fair enough.
 
As I’ve said for years I could tip a vinyl vs. CD dem anyway I wanted just by selecting good bad masterings. Both formats are perfectly capable of truly stunning results and of showing up exactly what the recording and mastering engineers got right/wrong. Every good system should be pretty evenly matched between sources, tilting one way or the other only means it chooses the music for you.
 
I had a Big Mac yesterday and thoroughly enjoyed it. A silly point Mr Pig, which I'm sure you know.

I'm making the point that just because something is popular does not mean it is better. No comparison of user numbers is relevant to the CD vs vinyl quality question as other factors contribute to the choices people make. I invested in CD because the music I wanted was not available on vinyl any more. I enjoy the convenience and robust nature of the disks. None of these things say anything about the sound quality.
 


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