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Cause of sibilance?

Didn't think of that but can't find any info on input loading of the stage. According to AN the cart needs 150-200pF, so it's unlikely to be a long way from that. In the tubeamps review it says input is '2mV sensitivity variable'. Have you got a manual and can you check this out?

Found the manual in the box but it’s exactly the same as the online PDF https://www.audion.co.uk/PDF files/Premier Pre-amps manuals/premier_pre-amp_manual_english.pdf

not a sausage about anything variable.

I have a passive preamp with a stepped attenuator sat around doing nothing but I assume it’s a silly idea to try putting that before the input to the photo stage.

VTA if anything is a tiny fraction down at the back but also that MOFI vinyl is on the heavy side.

Thanks
 
Assume your records are wet-vac cleaned. The 12" arm should present a more laid back (though not less detailed) presentation. The phenomenal (?) 6.5 mV output of the AN into a 2mV stage may certainly be an accentuating factor. With the Dr. Feickert protractor (I have the original), your alignment should be spot on. Unless VTF is obviously too low or the VTA/SRA not balanced (sibilance increases with increase height at the rear), all I can suggest is to get a decent moving coil (sorry; didn't really mean that ! :D)

Capacitance, which is more important in a MM, may be a factor here but I have little knowledge of MMs generally. Not sure how this would introduce sibilance, though.

Thank you. Unless my digital gauge is well off I have tried going to the upper range of the VTF and notice little difference.
 
Had another look at the specs. Coil inductance: IQ3 is 570uH and VM95ML is 550uH so I'm pretty certain if it was excessive capacitance, they'd both suffer.
I have a passive preamp with a stepped attenuator sat around doing nothing but I assume it’s a silly idea to try putting that before the input to the photo stage
No. It's unlikely to be 47k/150pF input loading. However if making a lead is too troublesome then make it up using a 6-way chocolate block. You'll need to cut a pair of leads or make something up. Incoming signal from cart goes to 22k in series with 47k which goes to incoming screen. Outgoing to amp goes to junction of 22k and 47k, screen to incoming screen. One for each channel. Put this into a ziplock bag and place inside a (clean!) bean or soup tin. This tin just needs a wire soldering or croc clipping to it which you connect to the earth connector on your MM stage so it screens the choc block circuit.
 
When I was in a band many moons ago we used to test the mics by saying “Sibilance, Sibilance”. I’m sure we heard it an movie though :). I also used some Gotham GAC interconnects between my streamer and amp once. Never again. The Sibilance was so bad that I googled reviews of the cables and Whathifi had found the same thing.
 
I had massive sibilance when trying to use a Rega Elys with a Naim MM (322) phono stage way back. I suspect it was due to the Naim's 470pF loading impedance. I changed the cartridge in the end for a K9 we had lying around! Silly really, as I could have altered the MM cards any time I wanted. Now I redesigned mine with switchable loading and 100pF is the sweet spot for Rega arm leads and the VM95.

The only Rega I've tested shows a big mechanical resonance. cf

https://www.audiomisc.co.uk/HFN/LP4/NewLampsForOld.html

Jim
 
Had another look at the specs. Coil inductance: IQ3 is 570uH and VM95ML is 550uH so I'm pretty certain if it was excessive capacitance, they'd both suffer.

No. It's unlikely to be 47k/150pF input loading. However if making a lead is too troublesome then make it up using a 6-way chocolate block. You'll need to cut a pair of leads or make something up. Incoming signal from cart goes to 22k in series with 47k which goes to incoming screen. Outgoing to amp goes to junction of 22k and 47k, screen to incoming screen. One for each channel. Put this into a ziplock bag and place inside a (clean!) bean or soup tin. This tin just needs a wire soldering or croc clipping to it which you connect to the earth connector on your MM stage so it screens the choc block circuit.

Well I have literally only just got around to trying this (sorry!) and it didn’t make any difference to the harsh cymbals or sibilance but as expected everything was a little quieter. However! If I take the the 22K resistor and put this across signal and ground ok both channels, everything is significantly improved and sounds balanced (the top end is no longer harsh/distorted but still detailed).

Not sure what this means…. Could there be a problem with my cartridge?
 
OK. Seems you have found the perfect combo then. :)
That means the cart is loaded with 15k per channel and is clearly damping it better as the top is cleaner, present and without sibilance.
Hopefully someone more able than I might be able to explain better, but if it works, that's what matters.
 
It certainly sounds good to me - maybe still a touch of sibilance and fuzzy hi-hat but about 100x better. I also spent ages checking the alignment and it was spot on as far as I could tell. Does seem strange that it works better changing the loading especially as this IQ3 has pretty good reviews without modifications. The cartridge body is not new and I am the second owner but the stylus is very new.

Thank you for all your help
 
It certainly sounds good to me - maybe still a touch of sibilance and fuzzy hi-hat but about 100x better. I also spent ages checking the alignment and it was spot on as far as I could tell. Does seem strange that it works better changing the loading especially as this IQ3 has pretty good reviews without modifications. The cartridge body is not new and I am the second owner but the stylus is very new.

Thank you for all your help

I’m glad things have improved. I ran an IQ2 in a modified Rega arm on a Pink Triangle deck for a while and was never completely happy with the top end. It was installed to the nth degree so I knew it couldn’t have been set/up but there was a hint of edginess and a touch of very occasional sibilance that couldn’t be resolved….
 
I’m glad things have improved. I ran an IQ2 in a modified Rega arm on a Pink Triangle deck for a while and was never completely happy with the top end. It was installed to the nth degree so I knew it couldn’t have been set/up but there was a hint of edginess and a touch of very occasional sibilance that couldn’t be resolved….
Thank you, that’s good to know I’m not the only one!
 
Great news. Can you adjust the arm so it is slightly tail down? What downforce (VTF) are you using? Maybe increase downforce slightly as this reduces the angle of the cantilever to the vinyl surface (and thus VTA) which is also like running tail down, but the increased force can stop slight mistracking. If that doesnt work, try 18k instead of 22k as the shunt. That MIGHT just remove the last of the edginess. Keep going, you are nearly there! :)

EDIT:just found this on Steve Hoffmann forum
'During vinyl playback, with the vocal centered in the mix, if the sibilance distorts and "splatters" into both channels, it's either your stylus mistracking or your playing back old groove damage from previous mistracking.

On the other hand, again if the vocal is centered in the mix, and the sibilance stays focused and centered and doesn't splatter out to both channels - in other words, it just sounds like a bright "s" sound - it's probably on the recording itself, not from mistracking or groove damage'
 
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Thank you. I’ve increased the VTF to near the upper limit (2.2g - was at 1.8) which seems to have improved things. I tried swapping the 22k for a 47k and it was too bright although nowhere near as bad as with no shunt. I seem to have settled on 47k and a 100k in parallel along with the higher end VTF. VTA I had a fiddle with but couldn’t hear a major difference in the high end, I did find the bass a bit slower/woolly with the tail down. I’ll play more with this to try and find the sweet spot!
 
I own and use a couple of Roksan Corus black and blue bodies with Goldring 1042 styli in them -have in the past owned a Goldring 1042 body as well. I remain puzzled by the reactions of folks who have used this cartridge and complain about problems with the high frequencies? I do wonder if the one outlier spec of this cart series -6.5mV output-isn't always to be suspected ? I own a stupid number of phono pre-amps -almost all my listening is done thru MM/IM carts -a spec I look for is phono overload -say expressed as XX mV @ 1 kHz . The current spec race is for most sensitivity -to a great extent this is a design balancing act -most designs that are very sensitive will have lower overload margins. Overloading inputs sounds absolutely nasty makes no difference if it's phono input or a ADC. My second point is that the Goldring 1042 and it's close cousins have been made for a very long time ( 30 years more or less??) - gotta believe there's a whole bunch of worn out 1042 styli still playin records -just not doing it well and this really shows on intense high frequency passages (clearly this is not the issue for the OP.) I also think the main problem with the 1042 is it's longevity without a model change to hide price rises - this is a 30 year old state of the art stylus and cartridge you can still buy-can't say the same for Shure ,Pickering,Stanton ,Micro-Acoustics ,Technics ,Sony ,-but Geiger nude mounted tip styli don't cost what they did in 1985 -so let's keep using that 200 hour used stylus.
 
I own and use a couple of Roksan Corus black and blue bodies with Goldring 1042 styli in them -have in the past owned a Goldring 1042 body as well. I remain puzzled by the reactions of folks who have used this cartridge and complain about problems with the high frequencies? I do wonder if the one outlier spec of this cart series -6.5mV output-isn't always to be suspected ? I own a stupid number of phono pre-amps -almost all my listening is done thru MM/IM carts -a spec I look for is phono overload -say expressed as XX mV @ 1 kHz . The current spec race is for most sensitivity -to a great extent this is a design balancing act -most designs that are very sensitive will have lower overload margins. Overloading inputs sounds absolutely nasty makes no difference if it's phono input or a ADC. My second point is that the Goldring 1042 and it's close cousins have been made for a very long time ( 30 years more or less??) - gotta believe there's a whole bunch of worn out 1042 styli still playin records -just not doing it well and this really shows on intense high frequency passages (clearly this is not the issue for the OP.) I also think the main problem with the 1042 is it's longevity without a model change to hide price rises - this is a 30 year old state of the art stylus and cartridge you can still buy-can't say the same for Shure ,Pickering,Stanton ,Micro-Acoustics ,Technics ,Sony ,-but Geiger nude mounted tip styli don't cost what they did in 1985 -so let's keep using that 200 hour used stylus.

The Audio Note IQ2 and 3 have different stylus profiles from memory to the stock Goldring cartridge and the IQ3 also has a titanium cantilever I believe, again different to stock…..
 
Good point -I have never heard a Corus Blue or Black body with a good stylus in it -only Goldring 1042 styli as substitutes (very nice combo IMHO) and have never heard a IQ2 or 3 -rare as hens teeth in the midwestern USA. Are actual Audio Note styli still available in the UK ?
 
I had sibilance and excessive brightness with an IQ3 at first - just took a lot of dialling in. Bit of a surprise as the stylus was directly swapped for an IQ1 (same body) which was working fine. It ended up being VTA-based, and I think it ended up tail down. Might have adjusted the VTF a bit too. Either way it was just a finicky bugger to get right; but sounded amazing in the end.

Gold Note B5.1 tonearm, and phono stages used were AN R-Zero and Croft 25R pre - FWIW.
 
I must admit that I very rarely listen to vinyl, I guess because of the convenience of streaming…. However occasionally when I do play a record it’s mixed emotions especially with my AN IQ3.

I have a Nottingham Analogue ace space with the heavy kit and two notts arms (12” + 10”). On the 12” is the Audio Note IQ3 and in the 10” is an Audio Technica VM95ML. Phono stage is an Audion Premier and speakers are the rather revealing Avantgarde Duo horns.

I am certain the alignment of both carts are good as I have a Dr Frickert and took time to set them up. My stylus force gauge is an Amazon special so likely not the most accurate of things but assume does the job.

So the issue I have is the IQ3 seems very detailed and revealing which sounds amazing at certain times and rather cringe at others. For example tonight I opened my MOFI copy of Dire Straits - brand new first outing and my word the sibilance and distortion on the hi-hat in parts of ‘Down to the Waterline’ were not pleasant BUT ‘Water of Love’ sounds great. Try the same track again on my Audio Technica and while not as detailed - care barely hear any distortion or sibilance.

I have no idea what is causing this - maybe it’s on the record and the Audio Note is just revealing it.

My other thought is possibly it not being run in as it’s only played 28 sides according to my clicker!

Any advice or pointers would be appreciated

I haven't read through all of the posts, so apologies if that has already been said but it sounds to me like you ought to check he cartridge loading for the Audio Note IQ3.
 


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