1. Things you need to know about the new ‘Conversations’ PM system:

    a) DO NOT REPLY TO THE NOTIFICATION EMAIL! I get them, not the intended recipient. I get a lot of them and I do not want them! It is just a notification, log into the site and reply from there.

    b) To delete old conversations use the ‘Leave conversation’ option. This is just delete by another name.
    Dismiss Notice

Cartridge dying?

Discussion in 'audio' started by Paraheadache, Jan 4, 2019.

  1. Paraheadache

    Paraheadache pfm Member

    I'm hoping someone has come across this before and could advise me.
    My Ortofon Jubilee has started doing this, first LP of the day and the right channel is obviously struggling, gaps in the sound and a bit spitty. By the end of the side it's fine and is fine for the rest of the session.
    Next day the same no matter what the lp it's as if it suddenly has a need to warm up. It has performed well since 2011. The Ayre phono stage is always on.
    Any thoughts on this would be appreciated, thanks.
     
  2. Mike Reed

    Mike Reed pfm Member

    Worth guestimating how many hours it's done in the 7/8 years. If it totals over 1000 the stylus will be past its best anyway. However, your symptoms are odd, and it may be the suspension innards which are taking time to warm up (i.e. becoming brittle). Is this something which has been coming on gradually or more suddenly? I assume the ambient temp. hasn't changed (as it's got v. cold recently). Could even be a dry or poor connection to the cart. pins (or touching?) or further down the line. Even possibly the bearings in the arm needing to loosen up more before tracking properly. Wild and unlikely guesses, these

    I'm sure you'll get some advice from others but it would help to know the deck and arm, set-up details (VTF etc). Could it be playing on too light a VTF, which would affect first play more than when warmed up.
     
  3. Paraheadache

    Paraheadache pfm Member

    Hi Mike thanks for your reply. It's a kuzma stabi with stogi (not stogi s) arm. It came on suddenly a few weeks ago nothing has changed since I bought the cartridge but it was used. Once this initial problem sorts itself out it sounds like it always has, very good.
    Hmmm could the arm bearings be playing up but why always the right channel?
     
  4. YNWOAN

    YNWOAN 100% Analogue

    Sounds more like your phonostage is changing as it warms up.

    Hmm..odd though as you say the Ayre (which isn’t a valve stage I don’t think) is always on. It could be a capacitor aging issue though - perhaps. Cartridges do go faulty but not in the way you describe - I’m still inclined to blame an electronics issue. Try turning your phonostage off and see how the problem persists/manifests once it has discharged and is turned back on - if the fault is different in any way then it’s the phonostage.
     
  5. Paraheadache

    Paraheadache pfm Member

    Thanks YNWOAN I'll try that. The Ayre is SS it doesn't even have on off switch I'll unplug it for the next music session and see what happens, cheers.
     
  6. MikeMA

    MikeMA pfm Member

    Try swapping the L and R phono 'in' leads - the ones between the cartridge and the phonostage - and see if the problems shift from R to L. If it does then it's most likely a cartridge problem. If it stays on the R side then it's most likely the phonostage or something else downstream.
     
    Jonathan likes this.
  7. YNWOAN

    YNWOAN 100% Analogue

    Yep, do all of that and report your thoughts. PM me if you prefer :). Good luck.
     
    Paraheadache likes this.
  8. Paraheadache

    Paraheadache pfm Member

    Ahha I tried this and it did shift to the left channel.
     
  9. Craig B

    Craig B Re:trophile

    That isolates it to either the cartridge or the tonearm wiring. Try reversing the channels at the cartridge pins; if the problem changes channels then it's the cartridge; if not then it is the tonearm wiring.
     
    Rockmeister and Mike Reed like this.
  10. Mike Reed

    Mike Reed pfm Member

    Yes, next stage in the elimination process; didn't suspect the ph/stage if it's on 24/7. Sounds as if the cart. has a dubious history regarding hours, and I just wonder if the s.q. really IS as good as ever considering the psychological sigh of relief when it comes back on stream. ;). Don't know the Kuzma but do know the Jubilee (not a fan) with its very low output.

    When the problem is sorted and the culprit exposed, you may want to think of getting a decent (25%?) trade-in on a more modern upmarket Ortofon, and ESCo may be competitive here. 7 or so years with one cart. is quite enough !:)
     
  11. Jonathan

    Jonathan pfm Member

    i guess if the problem were oxidisation (my guess) then the problem would have evaporated after the lead change ... i guess i would test continuity of tonearm leads next - then resistance at the offending cartridge coil
     
  12. Paraheadache

    Paraheadache pfm Member

    Thanks guy's for all your input. I've managed to switch the pins and played first LP of the day and yes it's over to the left channel now.
    Mike when you say Esco may be competitive do you mean to repair it or do they sell Ortofon with the 25% trade in?
     
  13. Jowcol

    Jowcol pfm Member

  14. Mike Reed

    Mike Reed pfm Member

    Esco. not only refurbish cartridges but sell them too, with px, or at least they used to do. I know they do Benz, but think they also do Ortofon. Wouldn't have an overhaul, which would come to around half its market value, but go for either an Ortofon or a Benz in the same price bracket (Wood?). Worth a call anyway, just to research your options and I guess 25% could be possible. Only some cart's (Ortofon, Lyra and (I think) Benz, e.g. have t/i value.
     
  15. Paraheadache

    Paraheadache pfm Member

    Guys what does this tell you, if anything . While pondering what to do counting the pennies etc, I decided to play around with the tracking force and with the help of a bit of blue-tack wound it up bit by bit from its normal 2.3 to an eventual 2.61 which cures the problem. Any lower and problem returns. 2.5 is the max according to Ortofon.
     
  16. Craig B

    Craig B Re:trophile

    I am of two minds on this one.

    1) We could be back to Mike Reed's original suggestion that the suspension 'innards' have started to go off, and this has been manifesting itself on the right channel as mistracking when cold. Facilitating a cure by increasing the tracking force to slightly beyond maximum would appear to support this; and it ties in with your having described the symptoms as 'gaps in the sound and a bit spitty'.

    2) Your tonearm's anti-skate mechanism is adjusted too low relative to downforce, allowing just enough inward 'skating' for the cold cartridge to mistrack on the right channel (i.e. periodically loose contact with the outer groove wall,) but when the suspension warms up it ceases to be an issue, as it also does when downforce is increased enough to override skating.

    Both of these potential causes would have reversed channels with the cartridge pin channel swop.

    I'd try setting VTF back to 2.3g and have a play with the anti-skate mechanism. The Stogi manual indicates that the bias weight centre need be 25mm out from bias outrigger pivot centre for 2g bias. It may have to be almost hanging off the end to get 2.5g (although 2g may be plenty).

    Having just re-read this, it could be a combination of suspension getting a bit stiffer with age requiring slightly more AS and VTF; perhaps there exists a happy medium that keeps VTF within Ortofons recommended range. Not that running it at 2.61g is going to cause a problem, mind.
     
  17. Arkless Electronics

    Arkless Electronics Trade: Arkless

    It can't be anything but an intermittently O/C coil from the sounds of things..
     
  18. Craig B

    Craig B Re:trophile

    I don't see how increasing tracking force is going to affect a reliable cure for an intermittent open circuit coil. Regardless of downforce, those coils wiggle round at the same relative velocity as that of the groove modulation.
     
  19. Arkless Electronics

    Arkless Electronics Trade: Arkless

    The sound cutting out altogether ("gaps in the sound") could not be anything else. Increasing tracking force could be changing the "pull" on the fine wire and making it less intermittent. If it was the suspension etc etc it would still play even if mistracking and would effect both channels. Of course the OP's meaning of "gaps in the sound" may be not as I'm interpreting them ie brief silences from that channel....
     
  20. Craig B

    Craig B Re:trophile

    Ah yes, the duration of the 'gaps in the sound', I see where you are coming from.
     

Share This Page

  1. This site uses cookies to help personalise content, tailor your experience and to keep you logged in if you register.
    By continuing to use this site, you are consenting to our use of cookies.
    Dismiss Notice