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Canon 70d + 17-55 f/2.8 To Canon 5d mk3 + 24-70L IS f/4 USM?

Fatmarley

"It appears my intelligence circuits have melted"
Looking to improve handheld low-light shots. It's only family photos, but I get a lot of grain with my 70d, and I was hoping an upgrade to a 5d III would improve matters. I try not to use a flash if possible because that can ruin natural light.
 
Looking to improve handheld low-light shots. It's only family photos, but I get a lot of grain with my 70d, and I was hoping an upgrade to a 5d III would improve matters. I try not to use a flash if possible because that can ruin natural light.

The orginal 6D is fantastic in low light
 
Fatmarley,

I'm not familiar with Canon's cameras, but one area where all digital cameras have improved in recent years is in having much lower noise at high ISO. If you take pix of the family using ambient light, a newer camera will open low-light options that were barely imaginable before.

Joe
 
Maybe I should keep the lens and upgrade to the latest version of my camera? (90d). Mine is about 6 or 7 years old now.
 
Lens is superb.
I had a 70D for a week to do a shoot at Wisley RHS. Never had a problem with noise.
90D is definitely better but try noise reduction software, saves you money.
 
Didn't think of noise reduction software. Just downloading the free trial of DxO DeepPrime to see what that does...
 
The 5Diii and 24-105 F4L is my current camera - the lens gets used for 90%+ of shots. It was a real improvement over a 7D with the same lens and that was a real improvement over a 40D with the same lens.
 
I went from 40D to 5Diii and the improvement is significant. I only use it with 100-400L for wildlife.

My phone has replaced my Leica for pretty much everything else. In particular the candid low light type pictures of people. If its family photos I am no longer convinced a DSLR is the route to go.
 
My phone has replaced my Leica for pretty much everything else. In particular the candid low light type pictures of people. If its family photos I am no longer convinced a DSLR is the route to go.

What phone do you have?

My Google pixel 3a xl takes great photos, but they aren't as good as my dslr. Dslr just takes a bit more effort.
 
What phone do you have?

now a Samsung Note20 Ultra. When we went on our holiday road trip to Wales in August, we took my Samsung Note9, a Leica and the DSLR.

The Leica was used once or twice. The DSLR was only used for long distance, birding etc.... the rest were all taken on a phone. I have had a photo book printed and the phone prints are indistinguishable from the DSLR.

If you are a pixel basher then maybe the performance of the phone will not hold up, but to the eye the phone as a photography tool had been a revelation.
 
now a Samsung Note20 Ultra. When we went on our holiday road trip to Wales in August, we took my Samsung Note9, a Leica and the DSLR.

The Leica was used once or twice. The DSLR was only used for long distance, birding etc.... the rest were all taken on a phone. I have had a photo book printed and the phone prints are indistinguishable from the DSLR.

If you are a pixel basher then maybe the performance of the phone will not hold up, but to the eye the phone as a photography tool had been a revelation.

Just looked through my photos, and you have a point. On my pc screen it was hard to tell the dslr and phone pics apart.... Perhaps I should just buy that Oled tv...
 
First up we need some info about how much light there really is. What sort of ISO/aperture/speed are shots typically taken at? Also, are you using JPEG or RAW?

More modern cameras have lower noise at the same ISO, and their JPEG engines generally do a better job too, so you may find you get a stop or two of extra ISO with equivalent image quality. The lens you've chosen for the new camera is F4 vs F2.8, so you'll find that you have already lost 1 stop of light before you get going, and the benefit of the larger and more modern sensor may not be helping (if you are shooting at F2.8 at the moment).

So, we need to know what your current image settings end up as there could be significant benefits to just changing how you've setup and use your current camera.

I'd also suggest you get an F1.4 lens for low light to complement the zoom, or one of the fancy IS F2.0 lenses that canon offer (say the 35 F/2 IS for example) as they will offer you 1 or 2 stops extra light which will give you more options in low light.
 
First up we need some info about how much light there really is. What sort of ISO/aperture/speed are shots typically taken at? Also, are you using JPEG or RAW?

More modern cameras have lower noise at the same ISO, and their JPEG engines generally do a better job too, so you may find you get a stop or two of extra ISO with equivalent image quality. The lens you've chosen for the new camera is F4 vs F2.8, so you'll find that you have already lost 1 stop of light before you get going, and the benefit of the larger and more modern sensor may not be helping (if you are shooting at F2.8 at the moment).

So, we need to know what your current image settings end up as there could be significant benefits to just changing how you've setup and use your current camera.

I'd also suggest you get an F1.4 lens for low light to complement the zoom, or one of the fancy IS F2.0 lenses that canon offer (say the 35 F/2 IS for example) as they will offer you 1 or 2 stops extra light which will give you more options in low light.

At home, it's quite often low light (curtains shut, low wattage light bulbs). I usually shoot at f/4 (aperture priority) because I find with moving children f/4 gives me a better chance of catching them in focus. The camera is set to auto ISO, and I have the shutter speed limited to 1/60 deep in the settings (any slower can give blurry pics). I think the camera can override this setting if it has to though.

I had a Canon 50mm f/1.4 USM years ago but a hell of a lot of shots were out of focus because I kept trying to use the lens at f/1.4. The odd one that I did nail did turn out very good though.

I know that 'dragging the shutter' at lower light with the flash can give excellent results, but I don't like to think too much about camera settings when taking family photos because it's more about capturing a moment that could be lost If I had to think about adjusting settings. I have a lot of respect for wedding photographers.

EDIT:
I always shoot in RAW.
 
but I don't like to think too much about camera settings when taking family photos because it's more about capturing a moment
indeed - this is why my phone has changed my photography world. It is discrete and seems to manage ok at low light.

I always shoot in RAW.

Yes I used to, and then decided it was a waste of time as i no longer wanted to push pixels etc.... JPEG gives me everything i need including really good prints up to A4.

I have to say moving from traditional devices to a phone, was hard, a mental leap of faith.
If i wanted to print at A0/A1/A2 which i dont then maybe a better device would be needed. Most of our viewing is online now. We do print calendars every year and a photobook for our hols, and the phone has not proven to be an impediment
 
At home, it's quite often low light (curtains shut, low wattage light bulbs). I usually shoot at f/4 (aperture priority) because I find with moving children f/4 gives me a better chance of catching them in focus. The camera is set to auto ISO, and I have the shutter speed limited to 1/60 deep in the settings (any slower can give blurry pics). I think the camera can override this setting if it has to though.

I had a Canon 50mm f/1.4 USM years ago but a hell of a lot of shots were out of focus because I kept trying to use the lens at f/1.4. The odd one that I did nail did turn out very good though.

I know that 'dragging the shutter' at lower light with the flash can give excellent results, but I don't like to think too much about camera settings when taking family photos because it's more about capturing a moment that could be lost If I had to think about adjusting settings. I have a lot of respect for wedding photographers.

EDIT:
I always shoot in RAW.

I know all about the moving child photography dance, it can be quite a challenge... It would be worth finding out what ISO the camera is choosing for you, as this will define when things get gnarly (everyone is different as to how much noise is acceptable). Basically, you need to find out when things work, and when they don't for you. e.g, if the ISO is 6400 then it's fine, but any higher and it's a problem, then you'll know how many stops you need to gain vs what you currently do to give an acceptable image quality with your current kit. Let's assume that you need to gain two stops to get the image quality you want, then this could happen by changing other aspects of how you shoot, rather than the camera. For example, if turning the lights up a bit gains 1 stop, and opening the aperture to f/2.8 gains the second, then you've managed to get where you want to be without new equipment...

I'd also try shooting JPG rather than RAW for a bit, or I think you can enable JPEG + RAW if you are unsure, to see whether the built-in JPEG engine does a great job of removing noise (you may find it's better than what you do with the RAW files).

On your camera settings, I find that cameras like this hunt around trying to focus in low light, and either get it wrong, or take 1/4 second to get it right, and this lag makes taking low light photos of moving subjects much harder. The way I resolve this is to change the camera shutter behaviour from it's default (1/2 press to focus + exposure lock) to just exposure lock. I then make the '*' button on the back act as the autofocus control. I also set the camera to 'servo' focus. The overall effect is that you depress and hold the '*' button, and the camera keeps focussing, adjusting as the subject moves. Then, pressing the shutter takes a photo, never any delay or lag. You can also grab focus, release the '*' button, and recompose to take a photo with an off-centre subject. I'd certainly try this sort of setup as it works really well for me. The main downside is that I can't quickly explain it to someone else if you want to be able to hand the camera across and have someone else take a photo.

You're choice of f/4 is surprising - i'd try f/2.8 to see if the depth of field is enough, and if so, this might resolve your noise issues by gaining a stop.

You mention problems with the 50/1.4 wide open - absolutely, it's not easy to shoot with, as on a cropped camera body the framing is tight, and the depth of field very narrow. A quick check on a DOF calculator says with a 2m focus distance, you'd have 8cm depth of field, which is just about an eye to an ear, or something like that. If you were to try a 35/2 IS at 2m, you'd get 24cm in focus, which makes a huge difference. Also, you'd have 2 stops more light compared to your f/4, so this again might be worth considering.

So, to summarise, try JPEG in camera, try shooting at f/2.8, try changing camera settings to improve your hit rate in low light, if all else fails, consider a faster lens, and then if none of the above help, consider whether a new camera might help.
 


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