Amber Audio
This is the Day
How many of that Paste 50 have you got?
Calling New Wave Experts
- Thread starter Mr Pig
- Start date
foxwelljsly
Me too, I ate one sour too.
I've always thought of New Wave as a peppy, preppy, skinny tied American thing and Post-Punk as the knottier, less glossy, UK-led equivalent that had a decaying Britain running through it like a stick of rock. Both current from 77-81. The Cars, Blondie, Devo, Talking Heads and Tom Petty were New Wave. Gang of Four, PiL, Magazine and Joy Division were post-punk.
gavreid
Pretty Words...
I never liked the new romantics - to me that was all a London thing, although my brother did. I grew up near Coventry and then went to Manchester Uni. I think I was more into the pub rock influences and the 2 Tone. Time for a Blondie play through
Amber Audio
This is the Day
Confession time - big Duran fan back then...and Visage etc. Synths have always fascinated me, used to go stare at the Korgs with patch cables in a York music shop as a kid when we visited. Have most of the Blondie LPs, wasn’t into Specials/Beat stuff though.I never liked the new romantics - to me that was all a London thing, although my brother did. I grew up near Coventry and then went to Manchester Uni. I think I was more into the pub rock influences and the 2 Tone. Time for a Blondie play through
Tony L
Administrator
If that is the current interpretation (I assume from people far too young to have been there) then the meaning has changed hugely from what it meant at the time! No way in hell would I put two-thirds of the titles cited in a ‘new-wave’ bin in a record shop. mid-80s Duran Duran? Talk Talk? Buggles? WTAF! I’d really argue against Elvis Costello too, though at least he was of the right era. They even threw some Two Tone in there, which is entirely its own genre.
PS For me new-wave, like Krautrock, has nothing of the blues or rock tradition to it. On a Venn diagram there should be no overlap with say Rolling Stones, Led Zeppelin or Deep Purple. It has an entirely different musical structure and form, it just doesn’t play by those rules. PIL Metal Box or Wire’s Chairs Missing would make that case nicely.
Amber Audio
This is the Day
There was a significant fashion element to things too, Dr Martins and Pods didn't mix at my school
RickyC6
Infuriate the frog-men
Tony your definition is pretty much exactly the same as what has retrospectively been named as post punk. Which is fine. But historically it wasn't really the case as we have seen. New Wave used as some catch all for punk and similar artists (e.g. Stiff); and I also recall it being used in the US (as mentioned above) to catch things like The Cars, The Knack and other very non-punky skinny tie types. All good fun. And probably of minimal help to the OP!
gavreid
Pretty Words...
The 'problem' with youngsters is they just don't have the perspective of the time ordering.
Joe Hutch
Mate of the bloke
Clearly the essay needs to open with a disclaimer to the effect that New Wave is a very vague term, with numerous definitions both in the UK and the USA.
Personally, I'd say that whilst UK punk is relatively easy to define and put boundaries round, both in terms of time and in terms of artists, New Wave is much more nebulous. In the case of the USA, the New Wave label is even broader, encompassing mainstream pop and rock far more than UK New Wave did.
I'd strongly disagree with some categories mentioned up-thread; for me, groups like The Stranglers, The Ramones and The Clash were solid punk and not New Wave at all. Television started out as punk (indeed, one of its co-founders, Richard Hell, claims to have 'invented' the archetypal punk 'look' of ripped T-shirts and safety pins), but morphed into something else after Hell left. Blondie's early releases ('eg 'Rip Her To Shreds') were punk-ish, but the group quickly moved to pop and disco. The Modern Lovers started out with a punk vibe, but also softened over time. Were they New Wave in their later incarnations?
Then there are the unclassifiable Fall, who began releasing records during the first wave of UK punk, but who were always outside the punk mainstream (and got bottled off stage for it). So, not punk, but they were hardly New Wave, either.
Plus, of course, there was No Wave:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/No_wave
'In 1978 a punk subculture-influenced noise series was held at New York's Artists Space.[15] No wave musicians such as the Contortions, Teenage Jesus and the Jerks, Mars, DNA, Theoretical Girls and Rhys Chatham began experimenting with noise, dissonance and atonality in addition to non-rock styles.[16] The former four groups were included on the No New York compilation, often considered the quintessential testament to the scene.[17] The no wave-affiliated label ZE Records was founded in 1978, and would also produce acclaimed and influential compilations in subsequent years.[11]
By the early 1980s, artists such as Liquid Liquid, the B-52s, Cristina, Arthur Russell, James White and the Blacks and Lizzy Mercier Descloux developed a more dance-oriented style described by Luc Sante as "anything at all + disco bottom".[18] Other no-wave groups such as Swans, Suicide, Glenn Branca, the Lounge Lizards, Bush Tetras and Sonic Youth instead continued exploring the early scene's forays into noise and more abrasive territory.'
Personally, I'd say that whilst UK punk is relatively easy to define and put boundaries round, both in terms of time and in terms of artists, New Wave is much more nebulous. In the case of the USA, the New Wave label is even broader, encompassing mainstream pop and rock far more than UK New Wave did.
I'd strongly disagree with some categories mentioned up-thread; for me, groups like The Stranglers, The Ramones and The Clash were solid punk and not New Wave at all. Television started out as punk (indeed, one of its co-founders, Richard Hell, claims to have 'invented' the archetypal punk 'look' of ripped T-shirts and safety pins), but morphed into something else after Hell left. Blondie's early releases ('eg 'Rip Her To Shreds') were punk-ish, but the group quickly moved to pop and disco. The Modern Lovers started out with a punk vibe, but also softened over time. Were they New Wave in their later incarnations?
Then there are the unclassifiable Fall, who began releasing records during the first wave of UK punk, but who were always outside the punk mainstream (and got bottled off stage for it). So, not punk, but they were hardly New Wave, either.
Plus, of course, there was No Wave:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/No_wave
'In 1978 a punk subculture-influenced noise series was held at New York's Artists Space.[15] No wave musicians such as the Contortions, Teenage Jesus and the Jerks, Mars, DNA, Theoretical Girls and Rhys Chatham began experimenting with noise, dissonance and atonality in addition to non-rock styles.[16] The former four groups were included on the No New York compilation, often considered the quintessential testament to the scene.[17] The no wave-affiliated label ZE Records was founded in 1978, and would also produce acclaimed and influential compilations in subsequent years.[11]
By the early 1980s, artists such as Liquid Liquid, the B-52s, Cristina, Arthur Russell, James White and the Blacks and Lizzy Mercier Descloux developed a more dance-oriented style described by Luc Sante as "anything at all + disco bottom".[18] Other no-wave groups such as Swans, Suicide, Glenn Branca, the Lounge Lizards, Bush Tetras and Sonic Youth instead continued exploring the early scene's forays into noise and more abrasive territory.'
gavreid
Pretty Words...
The discogs description is quite helpful
"New wave is a genre of rock music and a term which became popular in the late 1970s and the early 80s with connections to punk rock, disco, and electronic music. New wave was a cultural shift away from the blues, classic rock, and progressive rock sounds which were dominant in the early and mid 70s. The term refers to both this shift and the great amount of cross pollination happening in music in the late 70s when non-mainstream musicians began incorporating a wide range of seemingly disparate sounds with a DIY rawness. Early punk, dub reggae, funk, art rock, glam pop, kraut rock, and experimental electronic music were all very influential on this new wave of rock musicians. For a very short period in the 70s the term was interchangable with Punk, especially in the US where the industry was wary of the "punk fad". There were also different usages in the UK and the US mainstream media. Some music journalists consider New Wave to be a genre that takes the energy and ethos of Punk and combines it with more sonic and structural experimentation. Still, many consider New Wave to be such a broad umbrella term that it loses any defining power, similar to Alternative Rock which came later. As a result many artists and fans use related subgenres like Synth-Pop, Post-Punk, Goth-Rock, New Romantic, and Dark Wave to point to more specific qualities embodied in the diverse New Wave sound. By the mid 80s the term was less frequently used by both the music industry and journalists, but in the late 1990s and into the 21st century a resurgence and nostalgia for popular 80s music has brought the term back into popular usage."
"New wave is a genre of rock music and a term which became popular in the late 1970s and the early 80s with connections to punk rock, disco, and electronic music. New wave was a cultural shift away from the blues, classic rock, and progressive rock sounds which were dominant in the early and mid 70s. The term refers to both this shift and the great amount of cross pollination happening in music in the late 70s when non-mainstream musicians began incorporating a wide range of seemingly disparate sounds with a DIY rawness. Early punk, dub reggae, funk, art rock, glam pop, kraut rock, and experimental electronic music were all very influential on this new wave of rock musicians. For a very short period in the 70s the term was interchangable with Punk, especially in the US where the industry was wary of the "punk fad". There were also different usages in the UK and the US mainstream media. Some music journalists consider New Wave to be a genre that takes the energy and ethos of Punk and combines it with more sonic and structural experimentation. Still, many consider New Wave to be such a broad umbrella term that it loses any defining power, similar to Alternative Rock which came later. As a result many artists and fans use related subgenres like Synth-Pop, Post-Punk, Goth-Rock, New Romantic, and Dark Wave to point to more specific qualities embodied in the diverse New Wave sound. By the mid 80s the term was less frequently used by both the music industry and journalists, but in the late 1990s and into the 21st century a resurgence and nostalgia for popular 80s music has brought the term back into popular usage."
Nick_G
pfm Member
I'd definitely call Siouxsie & The Banshees new wave rather than punk. Much more experimentation and variety, very influential, and yes their sort of style became labelled as goth in the early 80s.
Aethelist
pfm Member
Nick_G
pfm Member
To me, post-punk was less mainstream and more experimental than new wave. Some of them became very influential in electronic music too e.g. Cabaret Voltaire, early Human League, A Certain Ratio, and This Heat (check out '24 Track Loop).
Finnegan
I like a bit of a cavort
Indeed, but that’s true for many of the supposed punk/ new wave bands. As I’m sure you know, Elvis Costello was a gigging ‘pub rocker,’ The Jam broke through on the back of punk as mod revivalists. Joe Mellor/ Strummer was a Woody Guthrie devotee and The Sex Pistols were as much of a boy band as Take That, Steve Jones was a competent guitarist and John Lydon was a long haired Hawkwind, Captain Beefheart and Van Der Graf Generator fan.
