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Calling New Wave Experts

Discussion in 'music' started by Mr Pig, Jan 17, 2021.

  1. Tony L

    Tony L Administrator

    Indie is a mid-80s thing for me. The point where so much seemed influenced by the first VU album, 60s garage bands etc, plus the advent of shoegaze, hardcore, grunge etc very much it’s own genre and very distinct from new-wave. To broaden the term ‘indie’ beyond this to just mean ‘non-major label’ you have to include Island, Virgin etc, and that means Tubular Bells is an indie album, and no one wants that!

    I’d narrow ‘new-wave’ down to that which happened between say Magazine’s Real Life and The Cure’s Faith and includes outliers such as Colossal Youth by The Young Marble Giants. The most ‘new wave’ album imaginable? How about Playing With A Different Sex by The Au Pairs. I honestly don’t think you could out-new-wave that one.
  2. Amber Audio

    Amber Audio This is the Day

    Agreed, indie rock/pop genre for me is an 80’s thing.
  3. Aethelist

    Aethelist pfm Member

    Let's agree to disagree. As a 16 year old in 1974 and buying every music paper / magazine available (NME Melody Maker Sounds Creem Rolling Stone etc)
    My version of history is obviously different.
  4. Amber Audio

    Amber Audio This is the Day

    I think of indie as a genre of 80’s music rather than anything originating from an independent label


    Indie rock is a loosely-defined genre of rock music that originated in the United Kingdom in the 1970s. Originally used to describe independent record labels, the term became associated with the music they produced and was initially used interchangeably with alternative rock or "guitar pop rock".[1] In the 1980s, the use of the term "indie" (or "indie pop") started to shift from its reference to recording companies to describe the style of music produced on punk and post-punk labels.[2] During the 1990s, grunge and punk revival bands in the US and Britpop bands in the UK broke into the mainstream, and the term "alternative" lost its original counter-cultural meaning. The term "indie rock" became associated with the bands and genres that remained dedicated to their independent status.[3]
  5. fegs

    fegs pfm Member

    Totally agree, whilst Indie labels existed earlier, the actual Indie genre was a mid 80’s thing
  6. Seeker_UK

    Seeker_UK I had amnesia once or twice...

    Would you count first gen goth acts such as Bauhaus, Siouxsie and The Cure as New Wave?

    If so, Siouxsie and the Banshees is a very influential outfit.
    Tarzan likes this.
  7. Woodface

    Woodface pfm Member

    Tony nailed it IMV
  8. Tony L

    Tony L Administrator

    I would, yes. Certainly they were at the time, though they have since been revised to ‘goth’. Again I see 1981 as the cut-off point, after that things had really started to sub-divide (goth, new-romantic, synth-pop, industrial etc).
  9. RickyC6

    RickyC6 Infuriate the frog-men

    It’s a tough one as everyone’s opinion will be a tad different. First time I heard the term new wave was on this classic compilation that influenced me and heaps of other UK kids at the time...

    Confusingly it’s mostly punk!
  10. Mr Pig

    Mr Pig ^'- -'^

    Exactly. In my head I had a picture of what New Wave was but when I googled I found it encompassing so much variation as to be an almost meaningless term.

    For me the progression is not just about the music but the whole package.

    Defined by the attitude. Predominantly anger and virtually always directed towards something. An outward projection of blame and frustration. It was the seventies after all.

    Post Punk:
    Less angry and more introspective. Asking questions rather than yelling insults. Like Punk got tired and couldn't be bothered wearing the impractical clothing, which gave more time to sit at home and actually learn to play instruments. A bit.

    New Wave:
    Really don't have much to say but want you to look at them saying it. Much more self conscious and style conscious so actively try to make music ordinary people might like. Starting to feel the optimism of the eighties and want to play with the new synthesizers, which lend themselves to a more poppy sound.

    New Romantic:
    Basically, tossers! Really care about what they look like and how they are received with a primary focus on making music that sells. To young girls if possible. More rounded, softer sound, the'll even do ballads, as long as it keeps the champagne flowing. They have the freedom to do it and they know it. This is the first decade in modern history that would accept Boy George!

    I've had this debate with her! I don't know what she's looking at but it's very US-centric. To me the UK scene was at least as important. Put it this way, MTV resulted in a surge for UK New Wave/New Romantic music in the US because there wasn't enough cutting edge US music to play. But it was all happening at the same time and overlapping. There isn't a clean progression and there are lots of solid candidates. Just need three which are unequivocally New Wave, which is perhaps most easily defined as bands/artists who definitely don't fit under anything else?
  11. Tony L

    Tony L Administrator

    It’s manly US CBGBs stuff with a couple of UK punk bands thrown in as filler. I’m convinced the term ‘new wave’ is a different thing in the US, though this album (which I’d forgotten about entirely) does establish context as early as ‘77. That surprised me as to my mind it is a post-punk label.
  12. RickyC6

    RickyC6 Infuriate the frog-men

    Stiff Records used the term in 77 I’m sure in one of their snappy slogans “surfing the new wave” or somesuch...
    Edit...yeah it was on the dead wax on the Bunch Of Stiffs compilation from April 1977 “surfing with the new wave”.
  13. Seeker_UK

    Seeker_UK I had amnesia once or twice...

    It's on Vertigo which is a prog / hard rock and metal label.
  14. Mr Pig

    Mr Pig ^'- -'^

    I suggested Bernard Sumner and Joy Division/New Order as to me these guys are a perfect example of the move from Post Punk to New Wave?
  15. RickyC6

    RickyC6 Infuriate the frog-men

    I think TL meant the label “new wave”.
    Seeker_UK likes this.
  16. Tony L

    Tony L Administrator

    The New Wave Of Jazz Is On Impulse!
    RickyC6 likes this.
  17. rstloup

    rstloup Active Member

    IIRC, the evolution of punk into new wave is covered well in the punk oral history book Please Kill Me.

    Honestly, the development of Joy Division into New Order is probably a good case study into how a sound changed through that post-punk period. Even though Joy Division already had many of the characteristics of New Wave in their early music, New Order's music falls much closer to how New Wave developed once it blossomed into the mainstream...

    Television and early Ultravox are both great punk into new wave groups...
    Mr Pig likes this.
  18. Weekender

    Weekender pfm Member

    Early Ultravox! were as much influenced by Roxy and Bowie?

    I'm more concerned that it is due in on Friday. ;)
  19. PsB

    PsB Citizen of Nowhere™

    Having missed a lot of the music in the 70s, this question (what is New Wave) bothered me for a long time, to the point I eventually bought a few books to try and sort it out for myself. I gave up when I saw Talking Heads knowledgeably described as Art Punk.
  20. gavreid

    gavreid pfm Member

    To go back to the question of an essay assignment, the nuances don't really matter. A good essay would explain or perhaps just describe difference of opinion, differing backgrounds and cultures, petty hatreds, snobberies etc etc. References might be something like


    or paste

    or britannica

    but something contemporaneous might be more appropriate depending on the level of the essay
    droodzilla likes this.

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