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C-Tec Miracle seal for leaks. Anyone used it?

Discussion in 'off topic' started by Mike Reed, Jan 15, 2023.

  1. twotone

    twotone pfm Member

    I’m just reading Mike’s post above Steve, he’s 80 and his wife is clambering into a loft trying every day to sort out a major issue a bloody recipe for a disaster, personally I don’t think the leak is down to the plumber but he’s leaving himself wide open unnecessarily.
    stevec67 likes this.
  2. Mike Reed

    Mike Reed pfm Member

    I see your point, Tony, but to go this route would be just too much for me. I've had good work etc. from the 2 plumbers (1 of whom has 15 years' experience) when they were employed by my regular CP12 plumber, who now doesn't do installations. This younger plumber set up on his own earlier last year but is still friend (and tenant) of my older plumber of 14 years doing stuff for me. So all a bit incestuous/family orientated (take your pick !:D)

    The older plumber is the one who registered the boiler as he's the Vaillant agent/installer and would do the annual checks. What ever 'temporary' (?) measure is done, I think it would pass muster, as it were. At the mo', we have a very warm house with rad's at low setting and room 'stat at 18 (which will be reduced to 17.5 as an investigative 'balancing' act between leak and gas usage. So you can see, things are a bit complicated and I don't feel I have an alternative but to wait, unless things get worse.

    I completely agree, Steve. What IS the definition of 'emergency'? Actually, it's a week from now but in all it'll have been not far off 2 two weeks.
    twotone likes this.
  3. twotone

    twotone pfm Member

    Mike I'd never leave a customer, who had just paid me a couple of grand, for a couple of weeks especially someone of your, ahem, mature years plus your wife doing the gymnast act.

    I said previously I don't think the guy is responsible for the leak but he is responsible to you as a customer and two weeks to turn up is completely out of order.

    One man's emergency is another man's inconvenience Mike and obviously as you are 'living' with this problem and indeed managing it very well I might add, then your man doesn't appear to think that it's a big deal but what if something happens before he gets to you?

    Personally I'd advise you to stop your wife from going into the loft or at least buy a decent ladder to make it easier for her to get up there.
    Mike Reed likes this.
  4. stevec67

    stevec67 pfm Member

    Or at least pass up a couple of rolls of fibreglass so that she's not wasting her time up there and she can help keep the gas bill down.
  5. twotone

    twotone pfm Member

  6. Mike Reed

    Mike Reed pfm Member

    Because I needed to completely sort out the loft I got 3 loft ladder installers in to survey/quote for quality wooden one in new access off landing during the summer but none was reliable, except the one who strongly advised against cutting the joists (yes, really !). Nowt to do with price either. Plan B was to get a suitable step ladder to replace ours but that simply introduced complications of platform height compromised by handrail height for our existing bathroom entry. I shall persevere with alterations to existing hatch, then refresh on my research. Took weeks to clear the loft !!!!

    Tony, I agree with everything you and others say about my plumber's 'service' (and it was a £4K+ job); he's not a good communicator either but is a competent installer. Any chance you can move darn sarf? :D. No idea how many litres have been lost since early December (or longer) before we realised than keeping the pipes hot stopped leakage. Can't continue though, even though this week's cold snap has been conducive to 24/7 htg; first time in my life I've done that. My wife doesn't have a problem hauling herself up, despite it being very inconvenient. I can get up there too, but getting down again is a challenge !!!!!;)

    Ho ho! Fully boarded over 4" of Rockwool with many layers of old carpet (best I can do; head height obviates raising joists anyway). Velux and lights up there, so civilised.
    twotone likes this.
  7. twotone

    twotone pfm Member

    Mike Reed likes this.
  8. Mike Reed

    Mike Reed pfm Member

    Actually 82, Tony. The boiler has just packed up showing fault F23 (pump prob's, air in system etc.) Lots of burbling noises of running water from the airing cupboard with pump inside etc. for a week now, so suspect air.

    Just hope the plumber(s) respond tomorrow as I can't get through on the phone. No need to reply to this as I simply wanted to update you as you've been so supportive. I do wish we'd soldiered on with our old Potterton but it really was on last legs. So much for 24/7 htg to stop the leak! Have now tied up ballcock and switched off boiler.
    twotone likes this.
  9. Rug Doc

    Rug Doc pfm Member

    Oh dear. I hope you get a resolution tomorrow.

    that code means that the flow and return pipes are too different in temperature, so the boiler has shut itself down according to the net.
    Mike Reed and twotone like this.
  10. Ellenor

    Ellenor pfm Member

    Here’s what I would do.

    Get around there pretty quick and show my face.
    Have a good look around for any obvious signs o a leak.
    Disconnect condensate drain from boiler and check for any water running/dribbling from there.
    Get my thermal imager and trace pipe runs in the concrete floor.
    Pull up carpets and look for damp.
    Find the issue and fix it.

    The level of leak you have might not stay sealed for long using leak sealer if it works at all.
    I’ve never used leak sealer, I trace and repair. It might not be as bad as you think.

    Prove it’s not the boiler first. The only reason I could think for the pipes going in the floor straight after a new boiler being installed is if the pipework is getting hotter now and the thermal expansion is higher. It’s the joints that go usually because the pipework can’t expand and contract in the screed.
    twotone and Mike Reed like this.
  11. Mike Reed

    Mike Reed pfm Member

    Thanks, gents; plumber has responded with a wrong assumption. I've replied with all info. so hope he comes round a.s.a.p. Too late for me to respond individually but your comment re' increased flow temp. (75) being higher than previously def. points a finger, Ellenor.
    twotone likes this.
  12. Mike Reed

    Mike Reed pfm Member

    Thanks; not sure I understand, but the htg was fine until my wife turned on the hot water. Lots of gurgling but not much sign of boiler responding; 20 to 30 minutes later, the error code appeared.

    Thanks for list. No signs of damp patches anywhere near rad's or where I know pipes run, but not possible to lift carpets/underlay without major removals (fitted complete run 15' wide at widest x 23' long). No emissions from condensate pipe; checked that before when htg was off and on.

    Awoken at 2 am by water draining from the rad. in our bedroom as it leaked away. got up to turn all rad's off but no sleep last night. Luckily my wife got some but my brain wouldn't let go. Shall go up into loft to clean out the debris in the exp. tank for when refilling happens. Obv. to us it's a leak in the pipes but that water gurgling noise from the airing cupboard (pipes AND pump?) which had been increasing lately was really bad when the hot water was activated last evening.

    Just to let you both know what's going on.
    twotone likes this.
  13. twotone

    twotone pfm Member

    Sounds as though the leak has gotten much worse Mike.

    The boiler has obviously shut itself down cause of lack of water in the heating system.

    The water must be percolating in the sub floor.

    Must be a huge leak/hole in a pipe or a fitting blown off.
    Mike Reed likes this.
  14. notaclue

    notaclue pfm Member

    Oh dear. What a bummer. And in this weather. I suppose given observations and theories discussed earlier, the very cold nights might be opening up the leak hence why last night was especially bad. Hopefully it will be something simple like a single elbow rather than anything major with pipes.

    At least you have immersion heater backup for water. Hope you have some electric heaters too. If not, might be sensible to get some in.
    Mike Reed likes this.
  15. Rug Doc

    Rug Doc pfm Member

    I think the problem is in the hot water tank.
    Mike Reed likes this.
  16. notaclue

    notaclue pfm Member

    If you mean the cylinder (tanks are those things in the loft!), it's a brand new cylinder so very unlikely.
  17. Rug Doc

    Rug Doc pfm Member

    Yes I mean the cylinder.
  18. wulbert

    wulbert pfm Member

    Could you disconnect the flow and return pipes for the suspect underfloor loop at the underfloor heating manifold and blank them off or install a short "dummy loop"? If this "fixes" the leak and the problem, then at least you know for sure where the problem is (assuming you still have doubts).
    Mike Reed likes this.
  19. stevec67

    stevec67 pfm Member

    Yes, this would be a reasonable approach. The OP isn't going to do this, bit his technician who just installed the new system will do this sort of thing. I remember once I had a leak, the tech isolated the boiler and left it under pressure, then went on another job abd came back to check for any pressure loss. There wasn't, so he knew the HX was sound. Further poking revealed a wet joint or two on rads, whihc was then fixed.
    Mike Reed likes this.
  20. Mike Reed

    Mike Reed pfm Member

    Before we started 24/7 htg on Sunday morning, the mains ingress flow was about the same as when we discovered it. As the exp. tank was operating as normal (ballcock, that is), the pipework couldn't have run out or got short. Since Sunday this has been check 3x per day to make sure that the exp. tank level remained constant with no refill with 24/7 htg.

    Yes, thanks; because of our old boiler failure last January (now there's a coincidence !!!) I've bought a couple of heaters and already had a large radiant and another convector. Have had an oil-filled rad in the bathroom since the new installation (needed as no residual red. heat under new pumped system)

    I've asked my plumber if I can turn on the immersion, just to be safe. Can't see why not but this new pumped system is Heathen Greek to me.

    You and me both, though not the actual cylinder but the pumped piping operating it. However, this is separate from the leak but sth here was just too noisy to be right. This as a cause of the error code shutdown as the boiler has coped with the leak for well over a month by my reckoning.

    Well beyond my capabilities and expertise, I'm afraid; We're now 99.5% sure there's a leak in the sub concrete floor pipes since I drained down (though the leak) last night; we could hear it clearly (hence no sleep).

    Thank you again, gentlemen. My plumber is without phone at the mo' and isn't the best email communicator but I'm now waiting for him to either contact me or call round; he has all the details of what's happened. It's a waiting game but he has mentioned lek sealant and/or connecting all the rad's overground. I'm no plumber but can't see how that's going to work with a number of doorways + French window.
    twotone likes this.

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