Busting the MSG Myth

[billo]

Got a citation for that?

Not off hand, it could have been that they found it did not travel across into the brain judging by their research
It would have been the mid/ late 70's articles by Garthwaite and Garthwaite
Lots of other things have passed into my brain between then and now

 

[Vinny]

MSG does absolutely nothing in the body - glutamic acid gets absorbed into the bloodstream from the gut - if it didn't you'd be in dire straits as it is an essential amino-acid.
I haven't searched, but I would be totally amazed if glutamic acid was not incuded in the proteins in the brain and as such MUST enter the brain.

Just Google amino-acid transport.

Very high levels in human breast milk too, apparently.

Glutamates are everwywhere, probably in most foods, it will be being absorbed from your gut 24-7-365 in all probability, unless you are fasting or otherwise have huge gaps between eating.

I have to say that all this is total news to me - all I knew about MSG was what I called Chinese cook's disease but called something else in the R4 programme.

It is just something that isn't real - the "effects" - but once invented people queue up to suffer from it. Not the first time, not the last and I seem to remember that such a thing has been run as an experiment many times over - a bit like sympathetic morning sickness etc..

 

[MartinC]

Vinny, with due respect BS - I can guarantee it effects me. Don't be so crass ignoring people who are actually affected.

 

[Bjork67]

Were would we be without Vinny ? , the new messiah mmm ? This chap will put us all right, Pfm's Donald trump or Pfm's Barbara Cartland. What he doesn't know is not worth knowing or if he has no opinion on it it's because his broke his keyboard on another thread stating facts that his correct and anybody else is wrong no matter what anybody else thinks. All hail Vinny.

 

[davidsrsb]

Then use the rotten fish sauce. Just do.

It looks and smells disgusting, but it took me an Australian friend, used to Asian food, to show me how good it was in a dish. I guess the quantity might be a factor, but basically it can’t kill you you know.

See belacan
Lea and Perrins Worcester sauce was based on fermented anchovies too, similar to an ancient Roman standard sauce

 

[davidsrsb]

We need sodium and potassium salts in our diets too, but extreme excess and imbalance can easily kill us.
When a little of something is good, far more is often not better.

 

[chartz]

Never heard of MSG before! How come?

 

[KrisW]

If you bathe your mains cables for 72 hours in a 20% weight/volume aqueous MSG solution, then leave to dry at 28.7°C, 14% humidity...

 

[Suffolk Tony]

Vinny, with due respect BS - I can guarantee it effects me. Don't be so crass ignoring people who are actually affected.

Me too. Eating a Chinese meal with MSG gives me a blinding migraine. Eating one without (there are a few takeaways that advertise "No MSG" nowadays) & I'm OK. So I don't touch the stuff.

 

[Vinny]

Vinny, with due respect BS - I can guarantee it effects me. Don't be so crass ignoring people who are actually affected.

Have you listened to the radio programme? Try from 5 minutes

Statement from a member of the UK food safety agency - MSG has been linked to no adverse health effects in any of numerous studies to an intake of something like a teaspoonful a day for an adult. Where effects have been seen, huge doses have been administered. I'll ALWAYS go with science.

So I don't touch the stuff.

You can't not touch it, glutamate is everywhere, in virtually everything that you eat. MSG is a common additive to legions of foods.

 

[boneman]

You can't not touch it, glutamate is everywhere, in virtually everything that you eat. MSG is a common additive to legions of foods.

I would imagine that naturally occurring MSG isn't nearly as much of a problem for people. You can tell me it's chemically identical to natural msg but it's pretty obvious to me when I eat the synthetic version vs a load of say organic parmasan cheese which is loaded with it. One bothers me, the other, not.

 

[clivem2]

Has the science tested whether there’s an overdose level for MSG or has it simply found that a small or reasonable amount doesn’t cause unpleasant effects? My suspicion is that it’s easy to add far too much MSG...just as Rick Stein adds way too much salt.

 

[Suffolk Tony]

Have you listened to the radio programme? Try from 5 minutes

Statement from a member of the UK food safety agency - MSG has been linked to no adverse health effects in any of numerous studies to an intake of something like a teaspoonful a day for an adult. Where effects have been seen, huge doses have been administered. I'll ALWAYS go with science.



You can't not touch it, glutamate is everywhere, in virtually everything that you eat. MSG is a common additive to legions of foods.

The "Stuff" being Chinese food. Yes, listened, but it doesn't stop me from getting nasty headaches, unfortunately.

 

[Vinny]

Apologies - somewhere (possily from comments on ayuveda), I picked up that glutamic acid was an EAA, it isn't.

However, a search online does give estimates for a an average daily intake of "several grammes" for an adult though, and that it is the commonest dietary amino-acid. That will be as part of protein molecules in the great majority of cases, but you cannot reinvent very basic biology - glutamic acid/glutamate, no matter how ingested, is absorbed into the bloodstream as glutamic acid.

I also referred to my knowledge previously being only of "Chinese cook's disease" - to me, that is water retention, typically leading to a chubby/puffy face, no more than that.

 

[Vinny]

I would imagine that naturally occurring MSG isn't nearly as much of a problem for people. You can tell me it's chemically identical to natural msg but it's pretty obvious to me when I eat the synthetic version vs a load of say organic parmasan cheese which is loaded with it. One bothers me, the other, not.

MSG is produced by fermentation by a fungus. Do we now have to consider how "natural" that is?
Do you drink any form of alcohol, not least beer?
Do you use asprin? If you do, I have news for you - it is no longer extracted from willow bark.
Next time you get prescribed an antibiotic, are you going to check whether it is synthetic or produced "naturally"?

 

[Seeker_UK]

Never heard of MSG before! How come?

Not a metal fan, obvs.

 

[KrisW]

I often see hucksters on Facebook pushing the idea that MSG, a product made by natural fermentation, is a “dangerous chemically-produced food additive”, while at the same time pushing high-dose Vitamin C tablets... things that really are made in chemical plants (and are totally unnecessary).

On the headaches, I’d just note that the Chinese takeaways that say they don’t add MSG are also the ones that don’t load their food with sugar and salt, two ingredients that are proven migraine triggers.

 

[boneman]

MSG is produced by fermentation by a fungus. Do we now have to consider how "natural" that is?
Do you drink any form of alcohol, not least beer?
Do you use asprin? If you do, I have news for you - it is no longer extracted from willow bark.
Next time you get prescribed an antibiotic, are you going to check whether it is synthetic or produced "naturally"?

Don't be daft. I'm simply saying how I've reacted in the past and you are basically saying it's in my head. I was postulating that perhaps the natural version doesn't bother me. Clearly in my experience it doesn't seem to. You can inject it for all I care but I'll happily try to avoid it where possible.

 

[Vinny]

You can inject it for all I care

As MSG, I have probably only ever eaten tiny amounts (even added to things as part of a recipe, it is extremely unlikely to exist in them as MSG as it will react with other ingredients, whatever that recipe may be for). As a component of protein, not having done the maths, I have probably eaten, quite literaly, tonnes.

I find the extremely simple science interesting, simple as that. I had never questioned the paranoia about it before, mostly because it did/could not affect me, and partly because it made not much logical sense.

ed. - some dirty maths - I have probably eaten something like fifth to quarter of a tonne.

 

[Heckyman]

Korea is an interesting example. "Miwon" and "Dasida" are iconic MSG-based home seasonings that have been used by the entire population since the 1950's. The most popular soy sauce brands also have added MSG. Any serious effects on a population would be obvious by now.

Lately competitors in the food industry have had some success with alternative products based on "natural glutamates", thanks to widespread beliefs that "artificial" MSG is somehow dangerous or unhealthy.

Common sense tells me that MSG is safer than alcohol, sugar and probably salt too. Natural glutamate is literally everywhere. But you don't want to get a huge bag of it and inject it into your brain.