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Bruckner's 10th

marshanp

ellipsis addict
The one problem with Bruckner... is that you run out of Bruckner all too soon.

And he is, of course, utterly unique. For years I tried to find worthwhile music that was directly descended from Bruckner, that made a logical next step. A few discoveries came tantalisingly close, but nothing really hit the target... until I discovered the Second Symphony of Martin Scherber.

Who? you might say... Well, Scherber is the one composer who, in my opinion, shows us where Bruckner might conceivably have gone had he lived on into his eighties. Scherber's 2nd symphony is the finest of his very few recorded works, and in it he finally pinned down the quasi-mystical principle of musical metamorphosis, with which he had wrestled for years. It does not obey the usual conventions of symphonic form; it is in a single 46 minute movement which although it has five clear sections uses the same thematic material throughout. When it appeared in 1952 it was both conservative, in that it ignored then-current musical fashion, and mould-breaking, in that nothing quite like it had been written before.

It does not break new harmonic ground. Its orchestral language is, for a post-war composition, old-fashioned; essentially, Brucknerian. Its statement/development/denoument is logical, inevitable... and consequently, by the end, thrilling. (Remember - Bruckner was a great innovator when it came to symphonic form; his breathtaking recapitulation in simultaneous counterpoint of all the previous movements' main themes at the climax of the finale of his 8th symphony suggests that he would have been sympathetic towards Scherber's ideas about metamorphosis-as-form).

So: I need to hear this wonderful discovery, you say! Point me towards a recording of it! And therein lies the problem. Scherber's 2nd symphony has received one (very fine) recording, a CD on an obscure German label. It was pressed in very limited numbers, and when those had sold, that was it. It is not available to stream anywhere, nor does it appear complete on Youtube, although there are tantalising excerpts. I was taken aback to see that the very few available copies of the CD are now priced from £1200 upwards.

But there is hope... I have that CD. In my opinion it is simply wrong that others are unable to experience this great music. If you want to hear it, you know what to do.
 
Quite a funny review of his 3rd symphony here: - https://www.gramophone.co.uk/review/scherber-symphony-no-3-in-b-minor

"the overriding impression is of a thematically inbred effusion that only ends because it has to. One senses that by the time it was all over the longsuffering Staatsphilharmonie Rheinland-Pfalz was thinking ‘enough is enough’.... if you’re not into Bruckner‚ I’d spare yourself the trouble. "
 
Yes I saw he wrote two other symphonies which are more available - do they compare?

A small consolation is that one is unlikely to run out of Bruckner performances of the 9 (or 10, or 11 depending on when you start counting) to listen to.
 
I have Scherber's 1st and 3rd symphonies too; the 3rd, I think, is also a work of real substance (whatever the Gramophone reviewer says - after all, the Gramophone is not what it was...), while the 1st is interesting, but was written before Scherber's metamorphic method had been fully arrived at.

The Second, though, is to my ears his masterpiece - in both senses of that word.

There are, I suppose, a very limited number of symphonies that can be written according to Scherber's principles - perhaps just one really good one! Still, I'm glad that he invested so many years in arriving where he did.
 
Quite a funny review of his 3rd symphony here: - https://www.gramophone.co.uk/review/scherber-symphony-no-3-in-b-minor

"the overriding impression is of a thematically inbred effusion that only ends because it has to. One senses that by the time it was all over the longsuffering Staatsphilharmonie Rheinland-Pfalz was thinking ‘enough is enough’.... if you’re not into Bruckner‚ I’d spare yourself the trouble. "

That's pretty much how I feel about Bruckner's symphonies, so I doubt if Scherber would be my cup of tea.
 
Well,as the old saying goes,one mans meat...
However,
In my case I have to confess that I think some of Bruckner’s music is simply wonderful.
 
A musician friend of mine told me once that he couldn't play all the notes on the sheets! :D
 
Bruckner 5, 6 & 9 are three of my personal essential pieces. I should probably try to hear this Scherber chap to make my own mind up..... any links?

Another composer with Brucknerian tendencies was Wilhelm Furtwangler (yes that one, BPO chief). I have heard his 2nd symphony, not rushing back, it was sort of like Bruckner and Stravinsky conversing and not agreeing very much - in between long-winded pleasantries. I think Daniel Barenboim has recorded it with the CSO.
 
Send me a PM with an e-mail address, Alan, and I'll sort it out tomorrow...

Yes, I know (and rather like) Furtwangler's 2nd. The other two symphonies I've found that might deserve the label "Brucknerian" are Rautavaara's 3rd (which surprised me) and, maybe, Weingartner's 5th - a recent promising discovery. Egon Wellesz's earlier symphonies are interesting too. I say "earlier", but he didn't write number 1 until he was 60!

Then there is always Marcel Tyberg's splendid Third... but that is more Mahlerian, with just a dash of Bruckner. A fine work, whoever planted the seed.
 
Many Thanks to @marshanp - I'm now listening to Scherber's 2nd symphony. Its certainly striking.... lots of big moments and some of them effective, but I just can't make out a symphony here, just a non-stop stream of big themes and not sure how it is all coming together. It might be great film music for a sci-fi epic with huge spaceships.

I'll need to give it another go and hear if I can make out a structure.
 
Hmmm... what is a symphony? An interesting question, at least for anybody who cares about such things.

Not something that a subset of critics happen to label "symphony", that's for sure... Das Lied von der Erde doesn't convince me that it is intended to be one, for example.

My best attempt at a definition is: a piece of absolute orchestral music which makes a designed, logical progression through time and emotional state(s) to arrive at a state somewhat different from its starting point, while having at least something in common with the corpus of works acknowledged as symphonies which have preceded it.

Which doesn't mean that a piece of music identifiable as a symphony is better than one which isn't... just that it belongs to a class of pieces of music which have some characteristics and/or tradition in common.
 
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I think now its more like if Ein Heldenleben was composed by Bruckner not Strauss. But a lot of the motifs are pretty much copied from various bits of Bruckner. And from Parsifal too. Its verging on plagiarism at times.
 
Having wandered back to this forum after a few years absence, this thread has certainly piqued my interest.

I would definitely class myself as a Bruckner fanboy.
My favourites being the symphonies 00 through 9, the E minor mass and the string quartet.

I would definitely be interested in hearing the 10th symphony (although I would call it his 12th), aka Scherber's 2nd. :)
 
Many thanks to Nick marshanp for giving the heads up to this enjoyable music.
I've been listening to Scherber's 1st and 2nd symphonies (the first being available on Spotify).

I'm enjoying them both, perhaps the 1st even more than the 2nd!

Both are clearly and wonderfully modelled on Bruckner, and are worthwhile in their own right.

I agree with Alan that the 2nd isn't very symphonic, more a series of 4 tone poems. But that's fine by me.
For me the 1st is a more convincing symphony.

Interesting and a bit disappointing that neither has the equivalent of a Bruckner scherzo. I think Scherber would have done that rather well!

Anyway, both are very enjoyable and I look forward to getting to know them better.
 


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