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Brexit: give me a positive effect... XV

Discussion in 'off topic' started by Minio, Oct 9, 2021.

  1. eternumviti

    eternumviti Wittering on the Vine

    OK, grateful for this, a long post in which you've gone to considerable trouble to explain. It's going to take me a while to process it all, and in places it seems to raise even more questions than it answers.

    I do take one point as read, and that is that a country (such as the UK/Japan) which has the ability to issue currency and service debt is far more resilient than one such as Italy (today) which doesn't. This has always been the logical argument against EMU, which places widely disparate economies into a monetary straightjacket. However, I find your analysis behind that conclusion very difficult to grasp.

    One small question, what do you mean by 'money of account'?
  2. PsB

    PsB Citizen of Nowhere™

    You're funny.
  3. Le Baron

    Le Baron pfm Member

    The chosen currency denomination for accounting purposes: Pound, Dollar. Yen...etc.
    eternumviti likes this.
  4. Seeker_UK

    Seeker_UK Booyakashah, check out my avatar...

    Many regional accents are being lost. Maybe not so "oop North" but you will not hear a rural Essex accent, Huntingdonshire nor Northamptonshire accent spoken very often by someone under 70.
    eternumviti likes this.
  5. Joe Hutch

    Joe Hutch Mate of the bloke

    If anything, I'd say homogenisation is more about US cultural impact, eg via MacDonalds, than the EU. That's the only thing the various European countries I've visited seemed to have in common.
  6. Joe Hutch

    Joe Hutch Mate of the bloke

    Same with Liverpool v Wirral accents. Separated by a few miles and the Mersey, but totally different.
  7. Le Baron

    Le Baron pfm Member

    I tempted to agree. I regularly go back to the UK and when I was in my home village and areas where I lived later (all in the North) I noticed that hardly anyone speaks the dialect that was pretty normal when I grew up. And that a lot of the accents have smoothed out. I also noticed that my brother has started to say 'book' and 'cook' like a southerner, whereas me, miles and miles away, I still say them the way I always have!
  8. NeilR

    NeilR pfm Member

    jeez. Britain is in so much trouble.
  9. eternumviti

    eternumviti Wittering on the Vine

    In the event, the troika enforced sale of national assets as a precondition of the various 'baleouts' had exactly the same effect, attracting hoarders of asset-strippers and massively further enriching the same, mainly German, banks whose greed had created the problem in the first place.

    Somewhere on YouTube there is footage of my favourite EU trough-feeder, the truly repulsive Guy Verhofstadt, furiously and disrespectfully (to put it mildly) berating the democratically elected Greek PM, Tsipras, in the EU Parliament for not ensuring that Greek Government assets were being disposed of quickly enough, when in fact they were setting records. A cursory glance at Transparency International's corruption index revealed that even as he did so, GV was pocketing a generous (circa €150k, as I recall) consultancy fee from a private company (Sofina) that was half of the consortium bidding for Thessaloniki's public water utility supply.
    -alan- and Le Baron like this.
  10. eternumviti

    eternumviti Wittering on the Vine

    Oh, and as for your assertion that pensioners and savers would have been left high and dry in the event of Greece coming out of the Euro, in the event of the 'baleouts' the troika demanded that pensions be cut to €500 per month for 1 million pensioners, unemployment benefits to cease after one year (leaving 9 out of 10 Greek unemployed without any income). The troika's enforced austerity left thousands of public sector employees on less than €1000 month, and one in three Greeks at or below the poverty line, destroyed 25% of GDP, reduced purchasing power by 37%, and destroyed 100,000 private enterprises.

    The German Chancellor Merkel was depicted in the press as wearing Jackboots and a comedy moustache, and leading a column of tanks. I believe similar cartoons appeared in Ireland at the same time.
  11. TheDecameron

    TheDecameron Unicorns fart glitter.

    Frosty, in less portly days. It’s amazing what a volte-face a bit of ermine can produce.


    Now as he gets tough over Northern Ireland, the industry is in direct line of fire should the EU respond to his threats with retaliatory import tarifffs. Exports to the EU are already badly affected.
  12. eternumviti

    eternumviti Wittering on the Vine

    I'm sure those things were in the best interests of the SWA. Unfortunately for them, the vote didn't go their way.

    I thought Scotch exports were doing quite well at the moment.
  13. Barrymagrec

    Barrymagrec pfm Member

    That may well be.

    I suspect Dec`s point was the utter hypocrisy of the person currently responsible for our negotiations with the EU......
  14. PsB

    PsB Citizen of Nowhere™

    You've mentioned this before, but I just checked and Thessaloniki's water supply company (EYATH) is still* majority owned by two of the Greek state's sovereign investment funds (50% +1 share and 24%). Suez is* the only other shareholder with >5% of the shares (5.46% to be precise), and seems to have been a shareholder for a long time. Sofina was not part of either of the consortia bidding in 2013-2014, but Suez was. Sofina (not part of Suez but used to be a 0.7% shareholder) would seem to have failed in its GR mission, if it ever had one. Since then, Suez was merged with GDF to form Engie, a group that has since re-focused on energy rather than water and sold the Suez business to Veolia. And AFAICT Verhofstadt is a board member at Sofina, not a consultant.

    *the last update I can find is late 2018
    There was a big row about privatization in 2013-2014, with a local referendum in Thessaloniki 98% in favour of keeping EYATH publicly owned. The Greek courts blocked the sale of 34% of EYDAP, the public water company in Athens. The whole thing seems to be on ice.
  15. eternumviti

    eternumviti Wittering on the Vine

    Dare I venture that, assuming the WSA photo was taken prior to the referendum, that his Lordship, having campaigned to remain, accepted the result, and accepted a well-remunerated job trying to negotiate the best possible outcome. He is presumably thought to have appropriate skills by the PM.
  16. eternumviti

    eternumviti Wittering on the Vine

    Indeed. The fact that the SUEZ bid failed doesn't mean that GV wasn't up to his armpits in what might, particularly given his spittle-flecked tirade in the EP, be seen as something of a conflict of interests.

    Perhaps you don't see it that way.
  17. Kirk

    Kirk pfm Member

    From Olly Robbins to Lord Frost. I guess Britain really is tired of experts.
  18. PsB

    PsB Citizen of Nowhere™

    I don't see how GV would have stood to gain financially from this - his remuneration as a board member in an investment company is presumably fixed, Sofina had a <1% share in a huge publicly traded conglomerate like Suez, where a division of a division was making a bid for a Greek company with 300 employees. I doubt a successful bid would have even moved the needle for Sofina or for GV personally. So "up to his armpits" is an exaggeration, IMHO.

    The more general question is whether politicians should be able to hold stakes and/or serve on the boards of private companies in general (or investment companies in particular) while still holding an elected position. They should certainly recuse themselves in case of any obvious conflict of interest, but we have examples every day that not all of them do so. In an ideal world you would want to keep things quite separate: anybody elected would have to resign board positions and put all financial holdings in something like a blind trust (and even that is questionable: how blind are these blind trusts?). In practice, many countries seem to struggle with this. I had a boss who became an MP after a successful career in business: he certainly kept his shares and his role in the group (just as well for him, as he soon became frustrated with his lack of influence in Parliament and was not re-elected).
  19. matthewr

    matthewr spɹɐʍʞɔɐq spɹoɔǝɹ ɹnoʎ sʎɐld

    For sure these are all really just accounting identities but this doesn't, at least outside the radical end of MMT, exist in a vacuum and is ultimately based on the amount of productive work and capital assets in the economy.
  20. matthewr

    matthewr spɹɐʍʞɔɐq spɹoɔǝɹ ɹnoʎ sʎɐld

    Honestly, these people.


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