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Brexit: give me a positive effect... XV

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eternumviti said:
Yes, we've all read it. You'll find that if you do so too, that it amounts to very little, less still 'fundamental reform' of the EU.

Incidentally, either you or the Observer/Grauniad have cut out the references to the requisite treaty changes, particularly in the last much-touted item.
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Credible link?
 
January 1st, just over three weeks away and the Federation of Small Businesses reports that 75% of its members do not know how to navigate the Customs import procedures for supplies coming from the EU, with Customs warning their goods will be impounded and moved to a central location if paperwork isn’t complete.
If you you think prices and shortages are bad now, wait till the full British Brexit red tape makes itself known after Christmas.

https://www.ft.com/content/11d3054b-0fbe-4149-a4fb-9bc5b57be32e
 
I blame the EU for the UK import regulations and red tape. Merkel in particular. It’s significant that she chooses to cut and run just when the results of her handiwork are becoming evident. You wouldn’t see a proper British PM bailing out like that. :rolleyes:
 
Tony L said:
And long before, you clearly weren’t listening as you’d bought into it!
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Evidence of ‘long before’ please?

The trouble is the ‘crying wolf’ thing again. Hard remainers insist on latching onto anything bad, blaming it on brexit and claim they predicted it. The only predictions to be judged for accuracy are those made before the referendum vote. Where are these predictions?

Anyway, since it’s about me again, no, I didn’t buy into it. In what way did I do that? Voting against the tories for decades? Is that buying into it? Among the other stuff you post about me do you think I’m a liar too?

What I did was warn people about it but they weren’t listening. It’s your forum. Do a search on posts from me and tory authoritarianism. They go waaay back to before the progressive LibDems helped them sow the seeds of brexit.

What I buy into is centre-left, socially honest policies with the hope of benefiting people less fortunate than I am. I’m not going to apologise for that. I’m quite happy with what I buy into.
 
Colin L said:
I blame the EU for the UK import regulations and red tape. Merkel in particular. It’s significant that she chooses to cut and run just when the results of her handiwork are becoming evident. You wouldn’t see a proper British PM bailing out like that. :rolleyes:
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The Brit tabloids are doing just that- they’re calling it “new EU red tape”. It would make even Goebbels blush.
 
eternumviti said:
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-eu-referendum-35622105

There you go. Its the one that Steve linked to upstream. I guess you didn't read that either.
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Yeah, I read that. He got most of what he wanted. Whats the problem? Gammon exceptionalism was not respected and he should have got everything or he'd chuck his toys out of the pram? Oh, wait...the gammon did.
But this was a negotiation, and he got most of what he asked for. Either you don't understand what a negotiated settlement is, an agreed accomodation between two parties, or you are seizing on this gammon trope like a drowning man.
 
It really is very simple. Cameron either achieved 'fundamental reform', or he didn't, for fundamental reform is what he assured us he would achieve, and what he tried to sell his package is being.

He fundamentally failed to achieve anything remotely close to it. Effectively, he didn't even achieve the the things that he ostensibly achieved, because they were largely subject to treaty change and unanimity. It was never going to happen.

To point this out has nothing whatsoever to do with 'superiority' or "entitlement' (seemingly pfm's new insults du jour), it is plain, simple, stark fact.

You are of course entitled to believe that the EU didn't and doesn't need reforming, fundamentally or otherwise. That is your opinion, and I respect it, though I profoundly disagree with it.
 
eternumviti said:
It really is very simple. Cameron either achieved 'fundamental reform', or he didn't, for fundamental reform is what he assured us he would achieve, and what he tried to sell his package is being.

He fundamentally failed to achieve anything remotely close to it. Effectively, he didn't even achieve the the things that he ostensibly achieved, because they were largely subject to treaty change and unanimity. It was never going to happen.

To point this out has nothing whatsoever to do with 'superiority' or "entitlement' (seemingly pfm's new insults du jour), it is plain, simple, stark fact.

You are of course entitled to believe that the EU didn't and doesn't need reforming, fundamentally or otherwise. That is your opinion, and I respect it, though I profoundly disagree with it.
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'Fundamental reform' is a broad and vague canvas.
Once again, specifics of what he didn't achieve. And you could say why you think them important, and why not succeeding constitutes unreasonable behaviour on the part of the EU.
For the life of me I just can't see anything here.
Except desperation, perhaps.
 
Tony L said:
It’s like being stuck in a lift with Charles Moore for seven years.
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Groundhog day every week with both EV and the other protagonist. One reads the newspapers but mangles the information into his version of reality the other appears to be unaware of any news or communications over the last 5 years keeps asking for evidence when given all the links ignores that information and comes back asking for more evidence.
 
tonerei said:
Groundhog day every week with both EV and the other protagonist. One reads the newspapers but mangles the information into his version of reality the other appears to be unaware of any news or communications over the last 5 years keeps asking for evidence when given all the links ignores that information and comes back asking for more evidence.
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Oh, another post all about some other pfm members...

There is factual evidence and there is chaff.
 
farfromthesun said:
Does Anybody Care What Cameron Is Doing About The EU Referendum In Bruxelles?

From: https://pinkfishmedia.net/forum/thr...-about-the-eu-referendum-in-bruxelles.184626/

That thread makes for interesting reading.
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I hate to say this, but the general idea of the tory party returning us to Victorian times is one I have used a lot and well before 2016. It is not a prediction of something that will be the result of brexit, it is a prediction of the effect of the tory party being in govt. I need no convincing on that one. Being in or out of the EU does not prevent the tories doing this, after all, they were managing quite well on it from 79-97 and then again from 2010.
 
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