Brexit: give me a positive effect... XII

[eternumviti]

And I’ve seen your answer to these questions of yours always seems to be “it’s the (insert adjectives) EU’s fault”. You have 99% reliability coming up with this answer. I remember one recent exception to this, where you did write the proposed UK regulation on wine imports looked like a self inflicted disaster, and one not due to the EU.

It is a UK rollover of an existing EU third country rule, but yes, the UK's (absurd) decision to roll it over.

The EU’s NIP policy is the direct result of BoJo’s choices. The EU has actually been pretty flexible in its search for solutions to the NI issue: the mechanisms offered first to Th. May, then to BoJo have been quite different, reflecting the twists and turns in British requirements. Many member states felt the concessions given to Th May went too far. They needn’t have worried, BoJo threw it all away in his bid to become PM.

The NIP is the direct result of the EU's strategic decision to weaponise the NI border and the GFA. They have succeeded admirably.

My general stance on the EU is positive: if it didn’t exist, it would need to be invented. I see no reason to change this view just because the UK decided to leave and chose the daftest way to do it. The EU is obviously a highly imperfect organization, and the various EU institutions make plenty of mistakes, including on the NI issue. The Art 16 incident in February, for instance, was an embarrassing own goal by VdL’s team. Fortunately, it was reversed promptly.

There's quite a bit of humbug in here, starting from the bizarre statement that if it didn't exist, it would need to be invented. The EU evolved from the post war desire by France to contain any further German expansionist urges. It was also deeply informed by the neoliberal movement of the 1930s, and the utopian fantasies of a number of its key players. As those initial dreams and objectives were hard wired into its founding principles, it has very little relevance to today's global geopolitics.

 

[stevec67]

Does this also happen annually in other cities?

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/orange-parade-erupts-in-violence-182204.html

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/pol...-sides-condemn-disgraceful-violence-1.2284398


Note this was 2014, 2015, but all the troubles in NI are a result of Brexit, are they not..

I'm predicting more 'Brexit' trouble there on the 12th of July.

Someone said that Brexit could start WW111, well there are 150,000 Russian troops massed on the Ukraine border.
Russia must be outraged over Brexit?

You are conflating sectarian violence with the violence happening now. The burning bus was nothing to do with sectarianism. No, not all the troubles in NI are down to Brexit. That doesn't make it OK to add to their problems.

 

[stevec67]

That's just the other side of it. I'm not going to vote for other people. I voted for what I believed would benefit me. What's wrong with that?

You are Jacob Rees Mogg and I claim my £5. He sold the country out for his own personal gain too. Well done.

 

[TheDecameron]

Or they screamed at for making a "mahoosive knee-jerk U-Turn" if they do reverse a decision.

There is a distinction that has emerged. The U-turns are invariably remedial action when back of the fag packet populist ideas turn out to be unworkable or the outrage is coming from Johnson’s own allies. The blank refusals to concede are normally associated with maleficence, examples of which are so frequent there’s probably no longer any point in attempting to list them.

 

[richardg]

You are Jacob Rees Mogg and I claim my £5. He sold the country out for his own personal gain too. Well done.

You have already fessed up that one of your reasons for voting remain was that you had steady work in the EU.

Fairly selfish view if you ask me.

 

[Seeker_UK]

The U-turns are invariably remedial action when back of the fag packet populist ideas turn out to be unworkable...

Not unlike Art 16 in that respect.

 

[Colin Barron]

You really have no idea.

I work in Switzerland and due to permit restrictions, it is much harder to get permits for people from non EEA/EFTA countries. When we receive job applications from candidates from non EU countries, they automatically end up on the 'no' pile, because it is much harder to get them a work permit. Guess which pile the UK applicants are ending up on now? I am sure it is similar in other EU countries.

Any idea how many people will care that the EU is a closed shop for employment?

 

[eternumviti]

You are Jacob Rees Mogg and I claim my £5. He sold the country out for his own personal gain too. Well done.

Yes, and you wanted to keep it in for personal gain.

 

[stevec67]

You have already fessed up that one of your reasons for voting remain was that you had steady work in the EU.

Fairly selfish view if you ask me.

I'm selfish? And that's coming from you? Bollocks. No, my (one of) reason for voting remain was that *everyone* had the opportunity to work in the EU. I happened to be one of them. So did you, so did the Poles, Romanians, Portuguese, etc who I saw in work. We all benefited. That's not selfish, that's voting for the common good. Selfish is when you vote for yourself and sod the rest. Like you.

 

[stevec67]

Yes, and you wanted to keep it in for personal gain.

No, see above. Common good, which happened to benefit me along with millions of others.

 

[wacko]

I'm wary of being drawn down that path, as we all end up rehearsing the same arguments that have been going back and forth since 2015. The thing is that the UK exercised its democratic right to leave the EU in 2016. Brexit is now long done, and repeating ad infinitum that it was a mistake or due to bent information, or a lack of understanding of the consequences is irrelevant.

The drawn out process of leaving, the EU's grim determination to either overturn the result of the UK's democratic choice, retain the UK in its customs and regulatory orbit, or as a final resort to use the UK as a warning to any other country that would consider leaving, has left us where we are now. That includes the unique and incendiary matter of NI.

You are right. I have been trying not to care anymore as it doesn't affect me much personally. Occasionally however I slip back into 'but why did we shoot ourselves in the foot ?'.

 

[Colin Barron]

No, see above. Common good, which happened to benefit me along with millions of others.

There is a trend that leaving was a good idea.
https://www.statista.com/statistics/987347/brexit-opinion-poll/

 

[stevec67]

There is a trend that leaving was a good idea.
https://www.statista.com/statistics/987347/brexit-opinion-poll/

No there isn't! There are 12 months of "bad idea" and in March the lines crossed. Come back in a year of the same, that's a trend. What you have isn't any sort of trend and it's ridiculous to suggest that it is.

 

[NeilR]

Any idea how many people will care that the EU is a closed shop for employment?

Presumably all of those who want to better their lives by leaving the UK to go and work in the EU.

 

[wacko]

Any idea how many people will care that the EU is a closed shop for employment?

About the same number that will care if a Brexiteer loses their job due to Brexit ?

 

[TheDecameron]

America watches,

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/world/violence-northern-ireland-sparks-fears-return-troubles-n1264763

Night after night, rioters in loyalist areas have hurled bricks and gasoline bombs at police, who responded with water cannons. So far, almost 90 officers have been injured. Dissident republican groups such as the New IRA have also moved to renew a bombing campaign aimed at intimidating the police force. On April 19, a bomb was discovered outside the home of a female officer near the town of Dungiven.

Nowt to do with Brexit...

 

[PsB]

There's quite a bit of humbug in here, starting from the bizarre statement that if it didn't exist, it would need to be invented.

That's OK, I wasn't really expecting to convince you now where so many have failed before.

 

[russel]

No need for the ‘FFS’ but never mind.

Basically, nothing has happened to the work, the lad just hasn’t bothered to submit the EU required paperwork? FFS why not?

Given the decades of being ‘in step’ there is no reason why qualifications should not be recognised between the UK and EU members. This red tape should and could have been sorted prior to leaving but unfortunately everything was rejected in favour of overturning the referendum completely so we are where we are. It’s a combination of EU rules and a reluctance to apply for a work permit.

How do people manage to obtain agreement to work in EU countries who are from countries that are not part of the EU?

What were the EEC rules for this compared with EU rules? I don’t recall such difficulties in the past, people from all over the world have moved to other countries for work for many years long before the EU simply appeared on the scene.

The ‘s4it show’ has to be made to work. For that we need cooperation between the EU and the UK. The EU has never shown any inclination to cooperate so I’m not holding out much hope.

The reason he can’t be bothered is because he is very skilled, can work anywhere in Europe and Britain is not the only country that has nice places, he’s gone to work in Copenhagen.

 

[PsB]

In other post-Brexit news, Liz Truss seems to have got FTA discussions with the Australian cousins off to a flying start:
https://www.theguardian.com/austral...ias-trade-minister-a-serious-setback-to-talks
https://www.theguardian.com/austral...actics-by-insulting-australias-trade-minister
The attitudes and tactics are quite remarkable. Where did these people crawl from?

 

[richardg]

I'm selfish? And that's coming from you? Bollocks. No, my (one of) reason for voting remain was that *everyone* had the opportunity to work in the EU. I happened to be one of them. So did you, so did the Poles, Romanians, Portuguese, etc who I saw in work. We all benefited. That's not selfish, that's voting for the common good. Selfish is when you vote for yourself and sod the rest. Like you.

I was being ironic, having myself been accused of being selfish in the context of a political vote, which is crazy. There is a lot of fake altruistic shit on here about the correct reasons for voting.

I'll always vote with my family interest in mind, sometimes that does in fact include the broader environment, ie the country. It just so happens that I also think Brexit is good for UK, so I'm possibly just as selfish as you, right?