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Brexit: give me a positive effect... XII

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Steve, have you ever interrogated your own assumptions. Do you ask yourself how or if the UK has greater significance or influence as an EU member. I'd be interested to hear what you mean by that, how you define it.

Sorry ET I'm not buying that from a man who has never genuinely interrogated his own blind hatred of the EU, to the extent (I can only assume if some minor protestations are to be believed) that he is prepared to follow a corrupt chancer into all sorts of contortions, that he wouldn't have done on any other issue - or perhaps that's the bit I'm being naive about.

Tearing up a forty year relationship with our closest allies and trading partners, which conferred additional benefits and freedoms to any UK citizen who chose to use them, in return for some specious concept of 'control' that we never lost, is not something that carries any "up" side for me.

But it does carry plenty of downsides, many we already see, with much more to come. If you have reached the age you have without understanding the significance of size in economic and diplomatic influence, I can't help you with that. Except to point out that this post Imperial hogwash that the UK punches above it's weight in any of these aspects since it lost that position is a curiously UK fixation, which sadly gets re-fed whenever there is more obvious signs of decline.
 
^^ EV there would be no need to 'question the EU's maximalist interpretation of the NIP' or anything else if not for Brexit.
Whether the ensuing problems could be managed better or worse is irrelevant to me because Brexit itself was a mistake based on misinformation/short-term view.

I'm wary of being drawn down that path, as we all end up rehearsing the same arguments that have been going back and forth since 2015. The thing is that the UK exercised its democratic right to leave the EU in 2016. Brexit is now long done, and repeating ad infinitum that it was a mistake or due to bent information, or a lack of understanding of the consequences is irrelevant.

The drawn out process of leaving, the EU's grim determination to either overturn the result of the UK's democratic choice, retain the UK in its customs and regulatory orbit, or as a final resort to use the UK as a warning to any other country that would consider leaving, has left us where we are now. That includes the unique and incendiary matter of NI.
 
I'm wary of being drawn down that path, as we all end up rehearsing the same arguments that have been going back and forth since 2015. The thing is that the UK exercised its democratic right to leave the EU in 2016. Brexit is now long done, and repeating ad infinitum that it was a mistake or due to bent information, or a lack of understanding of the consequences is irrelevant.

The drawn out process of leaving, the EU's grim determination to either overturn the result of the UK's democratic choice, retain the UK in its customs and regulatory orbit, or as a final resort to use the UK as a warning to any other country that would consider leaving, has left us where we are now. That includes the unique and incendiary matter of NI.

Maybe the answer is more democracy, now that people have had a look at how joyous it all is and they have something to actually compare with the assurances they were given and the claims made.
 
No need for the ‘FFS’ but never mind.

Basically, nothing has happened to the work, the lad just hasn’t bothered to submit the EU required paperwork? FFS why not?

Given the decades of being ‘in step’ there is no reason why qualifications should not be recognised between the UK and EU members. This red tape should and could have been sorted prior to leaving but unfortunately everything was rejected in favour of overturning the referendum completely so we are where we are. It’s a combination of EU rules and a reluctance to apply for a work permit.

How do people manage to obtain agreement to work in EU countries who are from countries that are not part of the EU?

What were the EEC rules for this compared with EU rules? I don’t recall such difficulties in the past, people from all over the world have moved to other countries for work for many years long before the EU simply appeared on the scene.

The ‘s4it show’ has to be made to work. For that we need cooperation between the EU and the UK. The EU has never shown any inclination to cooperate so I’m not holding out much hope.

You really have no idea.

I work in Switzerland and due to permit restrictions, it is much harder to get permits for people from non EEA/EFTA countries. When we receive job applications from candidates from non EU countries, they automatically end up on the 'no' pile, because it is much harder to get them a work permit. Guess which pile the UK applicants are ending up on now? I am sure it is similar in other EU countries.
 
You really have no idea.

I work in Switzerland and due to permit restrictions, it is much harder to get permits for non EEA/EFTA countries. When we receive job applications from candidates non EU countries, they automatically end up on the 'no' pile, because it is much harder to get them a work permit. Guess which pile the UK applicants are ending up on now? I am sure it is similar in other EU countries.
Yep, no idea. :rolleyes:

So you don’t want to question, or maybe you don’t care why it’s harder to get a work permit for non EEA/EFTA countries? What is the purpose of the closed shop mentality of the EU? Is there a problem with people from other parts of the world?

The chance was missed for a much softer brexit that would have made these things so much easier. Do you have any idea how that happened?
 
I’ve just found a positive of Brexit. My neighbour told me yesterday we can now get live langoustines direct from the local west coast fleet. Just pop round with your carrier bag.
I for one would like to salute the business ingenuity and plucky determination of our Scottish fishermen- already seeking new markets to rival the articulated lorries full of live crustaceans they were previously shipping to the EU on a weekly basis.
 
I’ve just found a positive of Brexit. My neighbour told me yesterday we can now get live langoustines direct from the local west coast fleet. Just pop round with your carrier bag.
I for one would like to salute the business ingenuity and plucky determination of our Scottish fishermen- already seeking new markets to rival the articulated lorries full of live crustaceans they were previously shipping to the EU on a weekly basis.

What is preventing them from sending the lorry loads of crustacea and bivalves to Europe now?
 
Organised crime exists in Belfast as well as in other cities? Well, who knew?

Does this also happen annually in other cities?

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/orange-parade-erupts-in-violence-182204.html

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/pol...-sides-condemn-disgraceful-violence-1.2284398


Note this was 2014, 2015, but all the troubles in NI are a result of Brexit, are they not..

I'm predicting more 'Brexit' trouble there on the 12th of July.

Someone said that Brexit could start WW111, well there are 150,000 Russian troops massed on the Ukraine border.
Russia must be outraged over Brexit?
 
Most people vote in their own interests, if they are honest about it.
I'm confident that some people voted to remain, purely for their own interests.
The same applies for leave voters.
If politicians don't like this, then don't be stupid enough to offer a one person/one vote process.
 
Well, you've heard me questioning myself on the hit to the agrifoods exporters right here. I'm not sure that I've ever heard you question your stance on the EU generally, and on the EU's NIP policy in particular.
And I’ve seen your answer to these questions of yours always seems to be “it’s the (insert adjectives) EU’s fault”. You have 99% reliability coming up with this answer. I remember one recent exception to this, where you did write the proposed UK regulation on wine imports looked like a self inflicted disaster, and one not due to the EU.

The EU’s NIP policy is the direct result of BoJo’s choices. The EU has actually been pretty flexible in its search for solutions to the NI issue: the mechanisms offered first to Th. May, then to BoJo have been quite different, reflecting the twists and turns in British requirements. Many member states felt the concessions given to Th May went too far. They needn’t have worried, BoJo threw it all away in his bid to become PM.

My general stance on the EU is positive: if it didn’t exist, it would need to be invented. I see no reason to change this view just because the UK decided to leave and chose the daftest way to do it. The EU is obviously a highly imperfect organization, and the various EU institutions make plenty of mistakes, including on the NI issue. The Art 16 incident in February, for instance, was an embarrassing own goal by VdL’s team. Fortunately, it was reversed promptly.
 
Most people vote in their own interests, if they are honest about it.
I'm confident that some people voted to remain, purely for their own interests.
The same applies for leave voters.
If politicians don't like this, then don't be stupid enough to offer a one person/one vote process.

There's a difference between your interest and your self-interest.
The latter is "screw everyone else but I'm OK" the former IMV is voting for that which produces a better, fairer society for you and your children to live in.
Its the difference between Tories and more inclusive social democratic views.
If I didn't give a shit about anyone else I would vote Tory too,
 
Most people vote in their own interests, if they are honest about it.
I'm confident that some people voted to remain, purely for their own interests.
The same applies for leave voters.
If politicians don't like this, then don't be stupid enough to offer a one person/one vote process.
Right.
 
There's a difference between your interest and your self-interest.
The latter is "screw everyone else but I'm OK" the former IMV is voting for that which produces a better, fairer society for you and your children to live in.
Its the difference between Tories and more inclusive social democratic views.
If I didn't give a shit about anyone else I would vote Tory too,
For the last quarter of a century, voters have consistently been wooed by parties with low direct taxation proposals.
Doesn't that tell you anything?
Lots of people believe they should pay less tax, and the burden fall on someone else.
Yes, it's a selfish perspective, and Tony Blair knew it existed during his time in office.

I give more money now to charity than I have ever done. I've given up on the politicians regards fairness.
 
My general stance on the EU is positive: if it didn’t exist, it would need to be invented. I see no reason to change this view just because the UK decided to leave and chose the daftest way to do it. The EU is obviously a highly imperfect organization, and the various EU institutions make plenty of mistakes, including on the NI issue. The Art 16 incident in February, for instance, was an embarrassing own goal by VdL’s team. Fortunately, it was reversed promptly.
I'm pretty broadly aligned with this, too. And on the February Art 16 incident, I think it is noteworthy that, having realised the mistake, the immediate, automatic reaction was to undo it. Contrast successive UK governments whose instinct is so often to double-down on things when called out.
 
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