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Brexit: give me a positive effect... XII

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rbrown said:
Getting control over immigration was one of the major selling points of Brexit and was one of the reasons many people voted for it. So it seems reasonable to assume that this anti immigration poster resonated with a sizeable chunk of Brexit voters. The more I think about it, the more I think 3-4 million is a conservative guess. Might have been half of Brexit voters.

The poster was clearly designed to stoke up anti immigrant sentiment and was straight out of Goebbels playbook.
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It’s simple- anti immigration sentiment was the second commonest expressed reason for voting for Brexit. The first was ‘taking back control of our laws’ which is a surrogate expression of the same thing. The media was filled with how we couldn’t deport people because the ECHR told us we couldn’t. Straight bananas paralleled with ‘the cat loving terrorist who’s British tabby had a right to family life’.
 
rbrown said:
Getting control over immigration was one of the major selling points of Brexit and was one of the reasons many people voted for it. So it seems reasonable to assume that this anti immigration poster resonated with a sizeable chunk of Brexit voters. The more I think about it, the more I think 3-4 million is a conservative guess. Might have been half of Brexit voters.
...
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If this is true, then why wasn't the Brexit vote evenly spread throughout the country?
One would assume you find racists everywhere, after all.
I certainly know members of the BAME community in Oldham who were unhappy at EE migrants here. Are they to be considered racist too?
 
SteveG said:
It's not just white people that are capable of racism.
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Well, I listen to what they say. I don't think they are racist, but are definitely of the protectionist persuasion.
When it comes to things like local jobs, income, and provision of services, people often are...regardless of their ethnicity IMO.
 
eternumviti said:
There is a grim-faced determination on the EUphile left to concede no benefit, potential or otherwise, to Brexit, as a consequence of which there is always this predictable scramble to remind us all that the UK could have gone alone on the vaccine even as a member state.

This fails to address a number of factors. The fact that the UK going alone demonstrated that, contrary to the constant pro-EU 'big is good' rhetoric, this example provided a useful demonstration that small, focused, imaginative, flexible, bold and fleet of foot could actually be better...
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I think this strips away a layer of important and relevant context. Essentially, there is a time and place where big is good, just as there is one where small and nimble is best. Unfortunately with Brexit, we have decided that we’re only interested in being small and nimble, and have denied ourselves the opportunity to benefit from the other side.

And as far as I can see the vaccine debacle, important though it undoubtedly is, is the only concrete example of where being small and nimble has prevailed. And actually, it’s just nimble that matters, so why not work instead to make the big EU more nimble?
 
Sue Pertwee-Tyr said:
I think this strips away a layer of important and relevant context. Essentially, there is a time and place where big is good, just as there is one where small and nimble is best. Unfortunately with Brexit, we have decided that we’re only interested in being small and nimble, and have denied ourselves the opportunity to benefit from the other side.

And as far as I can see the vaccine debacle, important though it undoubtedly is, is the only concrete example of where being small and nimble has prevailed. And actually, it’s just nimble that matters, so why not work instead to make the big EU more nimble?
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Being nimble rules out being conservative by definition.
 
Autocratic governments can be more nimble than those who have to consult the public.
China is autocratic, and it would never countenance an independent vote, for HK say.
 
A certain nimbleness with public finances, no?

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Sue Pertwee-Tyr said:
I think this strips away a layer of important and relevant context. Essentially, there is a time and place where big is good, just as there is one where small and nimble is best. Unfortunately with Brexit, we have decided that we’re only interested in being small and nimble, and have denied ourselves the opportunity to benefit from the other side.

And as far as I can see the vaccine debacle, important though it undoubtedly is, is the only concrete example of where being small and nimble has prevailed. And actually, it’s just nimble that matters, so why not work instead to make the big EU more nimble?
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so why not work instead to make the big EU more nimble?
Is that a joke? The solution to everything is more Europe and covid will provide plenty of cover.
 
richardg said:
No. People here are finding out that their vaccine is the astra zenica vaccine at the 11th hour and refusing it. There are of course people like those mentioned that just forgot.
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That is happening with the AZ vaccine worldwide. There is an issue with this vaccine. It is not a makey uppy EU thing. Around the world including the UK there are reports of clots.
At some point in the future if this continues and production is ramped up by other manufacturers the market will deal with it. Most people will take it as the risk is fairly small but long term if they can not sort whatever is causing it the vaccine will be sidelined. This has nothing to do with Brexit positives.

As for Lord Barrons small and nimble it is just small and selfish. I would predict that this will all ultimately back fire on this government like virtually everything else they have touched. I accept it matters little as their electorate is sold on them and no heroes are available in the opposition parties to some how change the tide.

Brexiteers on this thread just continue the fog of nonsense and irrelevant discussions to try and hid from the reality of what Brexit has bestowed on the UK.
In all walks of life be it people who lived and travelled to the EU throughout the year, fishermen, road haulage, exporters, farmers and business's throughout the UK who are now unable to function without seasonal immigrants, the loss of diversity and the negative narrow minded and nationalist mindset that is now rising. Scotland and Northern Ireland will at the very least be in turmoil. The suicides that have been mentioned recently and the list will grow and grow.
 
TheDecameron said:
“EUphile left”- love it. Then I copped the rest of the floral prose. Prize goes to EV for the greatest number of adjectives crushed into one sentence. You’ve truly drank Quentin Letts’ bath water!
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TheDecameron said:
Under EU competition and corruption law , half the VIP Lane and their bank rollers here might have ended up in jail.
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The major reason for Brexit and it is just ignored by Brexiteers. Such a laugh really as at least half the Brexiteers on this thread don't even support the Tory party or at least suggest as much.
Small and nimble my arse it is all about the super rich being able to continue to act with impunity. The only other really vocal group that want it are those who want a pure English England.
 
Sue Pertwee-Tyr said:
I think this strips away a layer of important and relevant context. Essentially, there is a time and place where big is good, just as there is one where small and nimble is best. Unfortunately with Brexit, we have decided that we’re only interested in being small and nimble, and have denied ourselves the opportunity to benefit from the other side.

And as far as I can see the vaccine debacle, important though it undoubtedly is, is the only concrete example of where being small and nimble has prevailed. And actually, it’s just nimble that matters, so why not work instead to make the big EU more nimble?
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To your first paragraph I would ask you where, beyond the realm of technical regulations, has the EU proved that its size really holds serious sway? Where, in regard of the EU, has big been good?

To your second para I would first point out that we are only 3 months in, and the vaccine issue has been, by a big margin, the leading global concern in that period. And the evidence thus far is that we're well ahead on getting back to up and running.

As far as making the EU nimble, are you really being serious? To do so would not only defy the EU's founding ideology, but also the fact the the bloc is effectively run by its own unnaccountable bureaucracy. Bureaucracy is defined by the fact that it feeds itself to the single end of more bureaucracy. To imagine it nimble defies the laws of science.

You trimmed my quote to remove the second half. I'm interested to know your thoughts?

eternumviti said:
... However, another question worth considering is whether, had it still been a member, the (presumably not so racist) UK would have gone along with the rest of the bloc. The institutional character of the EU seems to breed a kind of infantilism in its member countries, a sort of dependency culture whereby the states feel unable to make autonomous decisions, deferring instead by default to their masters in Brussels. I strongly suspect that, as a member, the UK would have dutifully trooped along with the others.

On PPE this might possibly have advantaged us, of course, (though notwithstanding the demonstration of ugly PPE nationalism displayed at the beginning, when Italy was on its knees). On the vaccine, it certainly would not have done.
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tonerei said:
That is happening with the AZ vaccine worldwide. There is an issue with this vaccine. It is not a makey uppy EU thing. Around the world including the UK there are reports of clots.
At some point in the future if this continues and production is ramped up by other manufacturers the market will deal with it. Most people will take it as the risk is fairly small but long term if they can not sort whatever is causing it the vaccine will be sidelined. This has nothing to do with Brexit positives.

As for Lord Barrons small and nimble it is just small and selfish. I would predict that this will all ultimately back fire on this government like virtually everything else they have touched. I accept it matters little as their electorate is sold on them and no heroes are available in the opposition parties to some how change the tide.

Brexiteers on this thread just continue the fog of nonsense and irrelevant discussions to try and hid from the reality of what Brexit has bestowed on the UK.
In all walks of life be it people who lived and travelled to the EU throughout the year, fishermen, road haulage, exporters, farmers and business's throughout the UK who are now unable to function without seasonal immigrants, the loss of diversity and the negative narrow minded and nationalist mindset that is now rising. Scotland and Northern Ireland will at the very least be in turmoil. The suicides that have been mentioned recently and the list will grow and grow.
Click to expand...

The AZ vaccine has saved many lives and even if the blood clots are attributed to the vaccine it is still a risk worth taking when there is no other alternative available. Maybe the Novavax will replace AZ (manufactured and bottled in the UK) when it is approved and production is ramped up, maybe these are the jabs offered to ROI by Boris.

We will see in the future whether the EU benefits from trade barriers with the UK. Some of the trade on both sides will be sourced/supplied with other countries in an effort to maintain the benefits for the 27. Also barriers to tourism will have an effect on countries such as Spain, where unemployment has dropped but is still at 13%; they are getting bad press at the moment with visas, will this blow over or will holidaymakers go to other destinations.
 
A lot of crowing about vaccines being a Brexit positive (at last something concrete to mention).
But in fact the UK success is more about the wonderful NHS.
And then there is the fact that the UK (and USA) have not allowed the export of vaccines. Whereas the EU has exported millions of vaccines (largely to the UK), while ensuring that the limited vaccines they have are shared fairly within the EU.
Nimble my ar£e...just selfish. Fitting as if one word could sum up the motivations for Brexit it would be selfish.
America First. England First. Me First.
 
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