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Brexit: give me a positive effect... VI

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You seem to be conflating goods and people. People are dealt with under the Common Travel Area, which predates the EU, the EC, the EEC and the ESCC.

I do take your point though that there could be some smuggling of lower standard goods in from the EU across the Irish border.
Fair enough on your first point (it was a bit of a cheap shot from me!).

I think 'some' smuggling gives little indication of scale. We don't know yet but my guess is it will be considerable, with dire consequences for law and order and potentially for peace.
 
What's your view on the smuggling that takes place right now, across an excise duty and VAT border?
 
The same trustworthy Johnson who prorogued Parliament and set in law that the UK could break the WA with the EU?

I think that the EU wants to gerrit dun as much as Leavers. BrExit has already cost them a lot of money, and it was not of its own doing... But unlike BoJo the EU is knowledgeable and respectful of the GFA and WTA rules.

And it does not want to grant free CM access to non-members.
Another reply that has little to nothing to do with my post.

To address your question, I didn’t say Johnson was trustworthy and I wouldn’t anyway because I don’t think he is.
 
I could even ask about the vast number of daily loads of Guinness that cross the border legally every day without any border infrastructure?
 
Surely, as our good friends, the EU would never take advantage of Johnson being in a panic and pushing on with a deal they know is a terrible one, albeit only terrible for the UK.

If the WA was so terrible, why did Johnson sign it?

It was either incompetence by Johnson and his party and the Labour Brexiteers (sign anything to get 'Brexit done') or wilful dishonesty.

A 'bad' deal could mean Johnson specnding the next three years trying to wriggle out of any agreement.

None of this looks good for the UK.

If Johnson announced a 'pause' I suspect it would have support from the great majority of the UK.

It's only a minority want a disaster capitalism-based Brexit. He has a good excuse that few could argue against.

I still don't really understand why any party in a trade agreement would not attempt to get the deal that suits them best, nor why it's a surprise that the more powerful party can exert that power over the weaker.

It's just how these things work. We left the EU. We accept the consequences of that action. Why should they give us anything that disadvantages them disproportionally? we would not do that with a less powerful country or bloc.

Stephen
 
Another reply that has little to nothing to do with my post.

To address your question, I didn’t say Johnson was trustworthy and I wouldn’t anyway because I don’t think he is.

You've been crying that the EU are bully and dishonest and intransigent (even though May was the one to set unrealistic red lines and Bojo the one who ripped up the WA).

And now you're whining that the EU is about to take advantage of poor old Covid-crippled UK.

Surely, as our good friends, the EU would never take advantage of Johnson being in a panic and pushing on with a deal they know is a terrible one, albeit only terrible for the UK.

Negociating a Trade Deal is an adult's affair.
You can't cry foul just because your adversary is stronger and doesn't let you have your way (now that you've realised any other way is sewage).

Perhaps the UK should have weighed up it own, real, girth before going into battle. Delusions of grandeur...

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If the WA was so terrible, why did Johnson sign it?

It was either incompetence by Johnson and his party and the Labour Brexiteers (sign anything to get 'Brexit done') or wilful dishonesty.

Stephen

Both. The WA is a deeply cynical, onerous and essentially dishonest document, devised by the EU and the wretched May, or at least her team of quislings. Johnson has at least got the wits to realise that you have to deal with the EU at their own level, which is not an elevated one.

Anyone here on pfm or elsewhere who supports the WA is by definition patently anti-British.
 
If the WA was so terrible, why did Johnson sign it?

It was either incompetence by Johnson and his party and the Labour Brexiteers (sign anything to get 'Brexit done') or wilful dishonesty.

A 'bad' deal could mean Johnson specnding the next three years trying to wriggle out of any agreement.

None of this looks good for the UK.

If Johnson announced a 'pause' I suspect it would have support from the great majority of the UK.

It's only a minority want a disaster capitalism-based Brexit. He has a good excuse that few could argue against.

I still don't really understand why any party in a trade agreement would not attempt to get the deal that suits them best, nor why it's a surprise that the more powerful party can exert that power over the weaker.

It's just how these things work. We left the EU. We accept the consequences of that action. Why should they give us anything that disadvantages them disproportionally? we would not do that with a less powerful country or bloc.

Stephen
Why are you asking me that? I have no idea why Johnson signed the WA.

You were the one who mentioned you have a fear of Johnson accepting a terrible deal from the EU. Surely that could only happen if the EU intentionally pursues a deal they know is a terrible one for the UK? Why would the EU do that? Obviously the EU doesn't want to disadvantage the 27, but why should anything the UK wants from the negotations be to actively disadvantage this big, powerful group of 27 countries so badly that they agree to absolutely nothing?

If the EU has been actively pursuing a deal it knows is terrible for the UK, then sadly the sooner we get away from it the better because frankly, that stinks regardless of your assertion that "it's just how things work". That means they are trying to put the boot in and as such, they can f right off.

As I've been saying for ages now, give and take on both sides is what is required and if the EU will not give anything in return for what IT wants, why on earth should the UK agree to disadvantage the UK?

Do you think you can write a post without reference to "brexiteers", by the way?
 
You've been crying that the EU are bully and dishonest and intransigent (even though May was the one to set unrealistic red lines and Bojo the one who ripped up the WA).

And now you're whining that the EU is about to take advantage of poor old Covid-crippled UK.

Negociating a Trade Deal is an adult's affair.
You can't cry foul just because your adversary is stronger and doesn't let you have your way (now that you've realised any other way is sewage).

Perhaps the UK should have weighed up it own, real, girth before going into battle. Delusions of grandeur...
Whining?

If you want to see whining, check your own posts for your display of fascism in that revealing thread you started.
 
If the EU has been actively pursuing a deal it knows is terrible for the UK, then sadly the sooner we get away from it the better because frankly, that stinks regardless of your assertion that "it's just how things work". That means they are trying to put the boot in and as such, they can f right off.

How do you feel about the UK putting the (admittedly smaller) boot in?

Amazon Prime gives you free access to some media (films, music, etc.) and free one-day delivery for a lot of their items as well as some special promos not available to non-members.

If you choose not to be a Prime Member you can still get free shipping but you need to spend a minimum of £20, enough to compensate for your non-membership, and you can enjoy all media content in a pay per item basis.
You will still need to register an account and be subject to Amazon's rules.

The UK has cancelled its Prime Membership but doesn't want to give up the benefits and priveleges.
 
Whining?

If you want to see whining, check your own posts for your display of fascism in that revealing thread you started.

BrExit is a Fascist movement. Maybe I sould join the crowd then. (the post you are referring to was actually about stopping fascism)
 
I agree with the last sentiment at least, if not with the hyperbole otherwise.

So let’s leave it as it is and if we must leave without a deal, let’s do it at least when conditions are more favourable.

Do you not have the slightest reservations of throwing the economy into chaos when we are struggling with the economic impact of the pandemic?

There are stirrings that at least some members of Johnson’s cabinet do.

I, like you, are concerned that Johnson will agree to a terrible deal out of panic. A pause for reflection makes sense under the current circumstances.

As I’ve also said, you leavers have won. Farage has won. Johnson has won. Why the rush?

Stephen
You are suggesting that the economies of Europe will improve which may or may not be true.
Italy is only hanging on in there with little hope of improvement. The frugals are not happy at the joint debt responsibility for very little benefit and are being pushed into signing it off, whether they will sign off the next mountain of mutual debt remains to be seen. A no deal will require serious support for the ROI.
Covid may be a problem for years and we may be due a recession so lets face it this may be as good as it gets for several years to come. Last but not least politicians are focused on sorting out a deal and they need to move onto other problems.
 
Limbo

In Roman Catholic theology, the border place between heaven and hell where dwell those souls who, though not condemned to punishment, are deprived of the joy of eternal existence with God in heaven.
The word is of Teutonic origin, meaning “border” or “anything joined on.”
 
We now have membership of the EU being compared with that of Amazon Prime. It isn't a flattering one. But at least we've moved on from bloody golf clubs.
 
We now have membership of the EU being compared with that of Amazon Prime. It isn't a flattering one. But at least we've moved on from bloody golf clubs.
Classic metaphor, there. Thanks for resurrecting it.
Unfortunately it fits brexit all too well...
In fact the EU have shown considerably more patience and forbearance than if you turned up with your clubs minus membership.
 
We now have membership of the EU being compared with that of Amazon Prime. It isn't a flattering one. But at least we've moved on from bloody golf clubs.

Thanks. I had to think hard for an analogy that a non-golfer or non-workouter would understand...
 
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