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Brexit: give me a positive effect... VI

Discussion in 'off topic' started by tonerei, Oct 3, 2020.

  1. stephen bennett

    stephen bennett Mr Enigma

    The fisheries issue really sums up how far apart leavers and remainers are.

    I understand that this is more about it being a kind of Totem that describes many leave voters ‘sense’ of country, but I really struggle to understand how anyone could sell out the automotive and other manufacturing sectors, finance and agriculture for something that has such a small effect on the lives on the rest of the country.

    Under the status quo, no one involved in fishing will lose their current livelihood. If tariffs are applied and they sell fewer fish to the EU as a result, they certainly will.

    Stephen
     
  2. roman

    roman pfm Member

    I think it's because brexit is mostly about feeling and that is more easily applied to something like fish because it's easier to understand than something like the interplay between a customs union and the GFA.

    The populists latch onto it because they are all about simple answers to complex, or just as often, non-existent problems.
     
    stephen bennett likes this.
  3. Colin Barron

    Colin Barron pfm Member

    According to the Sunday Times, Gove is in no deal is the only option mode.
     
  4. Colin Barron

    Colin Barron pfm Member

    To achieve Brexit of any sort an end stop that does not move has to be set. Whether that is no deal or something else it must be agreed in December otherwise there is a belief that an end stop does not exist.
     
  5. stephen bennett

    stephen bennett Mr Enigma

    You see, Colin this really makes no sense to me.

    We’ve left the EU.

    We can pull out on WTO terms anytime we like.

    We are facing an existential crisis.

    We can have an ‘end stop’ anytime we like.

    Only in Johnson’s mind does it have to be an arbitrary date in the middle of a pandemic.

    Stephen
     
    tuga and Sue Pertwee-Tyr like this.
  6. Nick_G

    Nick_G pfm Member

    Fixed that last quote for you.
     
    tuga likes this.
  7. SteveS1

    SteveS1 I heard that, pardon?

    Sometimes it's nice to look certain when you are not in control. He won't be criticised if there is a deal - people would soon forget he said he favoured no deal at any stage. It's called playing both sides against the middle - which he and other Brexiteers have been doing since they unexpectedly won and had no plan for it.

    You seem surprised that Gove is saying different things to people, even Johnson might have seen that before.
     
    tonerei and Sue Pertwee-Tyr like this.
  8. I.D.C.

    I.D.C. pfm Member

    Fisheries make up 1% of GDP they tell us it's about that utter nonsense it's a smoke screen .
     
    tuga, tonerei and SteveS1 like this.
  9. Colin L

    Colin L LOU Attitude Adjuster

    Since the start of the brexit debate, years ago, the knowledgable commentators have been saying the biggest problem will be Ireland and the GFA.

    We either have a deal, probably BINO, or no deal and we will breach the GFA. The Dems have said many times they will not approve any trade deal if the GFA is imperilled. So no deal will leave the Tories with WTO rules and no US deal (the lack of which is a good thing IMO).

    Biden elected therefore means a trade deal is even less likely and means Johnson and his allies funded by US right wing funded dark money will be Donald-ducked as will most of UK industry.

    All of this means BINO is likely and the Tories can also thereby retain equivalence for financial services for the City
     
    SteveS1 likes this.
  10. NeilR

    NeilR pfm Member

    BINO is the only sane Brexit. Sooner or later we will end up with this maybe via a Johnson cave in or by joining the EEA/EFTA following the economic disaster of a no deal Brexit.

    it will happen, evien if it takes a bit of time for the lunatic fringe to realise their errors.
     
  11. Brian

    Brian Eating fat, staying slim

    More pompous rubbish. “Only us (hard) remainers who understand...”

    You’re like one of those tories when asked a question answers something else, determined to say what they want to say regardless of what has gone before.

    Who are you talking about this time who you say sees themselves as a victim? There is a word for people who make stuff up so I hope you have some concrete examples.
     
  12. Sue Pertwee-Tyr

    Sue Pertwee-Tyr Well, I can dream, can’t I?

    This is my hope and belief, too. But we have a way to go before we get there. My only point of disagreement is that I believe the lunatic fringe knows their errors, but either doesn't care, or intends to plough on regardless.
     
  13. Sue Pertwee-Tyr

    Sue Pertwee-Tyr Well, I can dream, can’t I?

    I think there is a fair sized mountain of evidence that Brexit will cause massive, long term, economic upheaval, and a no-deal Brexit will cause enormous pain and difficulty in the shorter term. Anybody who still wishes to continue the present trajectory when faced with this evidence is either in denial, or actually doesn't understand. So in a way, yes, if you still support Leave in the present circumstances, then you don't understand the ramifications.
     
    MikeMA likes this.
  14. NeilR

    NeilR pfm Member

    if they plough on regardless, at some point their toys will be taken away from them by saner heads. The end result should be the same though.
     
  15. eternumviti

    eternumviti Bloviating Brexiter

    I've read the GFA. The only mention of the border in the entire document is in the use of the term 'cross-border', a clear acknowledgement that there is a border between NI & Ireland.

    The only potential clear breach of the GFA will, as far as I can see, be caused by a border down the Irish Sea.
     
  16. Brian

    Brian Eating fat, staying slim

    That’s been known since the referendum was announced and the campaigning started.
     
  17. stephen bennett

    stephen bennett Mr Enigma

    That’s true.

    But surely the added economic impact of the pandemic should make the Government think twice before implementing the hardest kind of Brexit right in the middle of it?

    Stephen
     
  18. tonerei

    tonerei pfm Member

    You see things more clearly than most. Can't understand how nobody else has figured that out. Just email that to Boris, Arlene and Mary Lou and that will be it all sorted.
     
  19. droodzilla

    droodzilla pfm Member

    That might be a fact.
    But is it the truth?
     
  20. Brian

    Brian Eating fat, staying slim

    Yes.

    Edit: Try misrepresenting that answer if you can.
     

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