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Brexit: give me a positive effect... V

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Your tasteless phrase of "weaponisation of the Irish border" has been remarked upon before. You still continue to use it though and that speaks volumes. You're ambivalent about what happened on a near neighbour's doorstep in very recent history, sad. Other times you do seem to care, I remember you said that you took an expensive holiday to Greece to help support the Greek economy during the financial crisis.

Sure he might take an expensive holiday to NI to support the economy on its road to Brexit. Maybe take the opportunity to regal the natives with his perceptive thoughts.
 
Your tasteless phrase of "weaponisation of the Irish border" has been remarked upon before. You still continue to use it though and that speaks volumes. You're ambivalent about what happened on a near neighbour's doorstep in very recent history, sad. Other times you do seem to care, I remember you said that you took an expensive holiday to Greece to help support the Greek economy during the financial crisis.

Do you not think that the act of actually doing it is not rather worse than merely saying it?

The EU and Ireland have used the Irish border question as a means variously of preventing brexit, holding the UK within the EU customs Union, and holding the UK within the EU's regulatory orbit. Barnier has even admitted as much. This was a deliberate and carefully planned (by the Irish) process that even predates the brexit referendum. Now you might not care for the word 'weaponisation' - as you know, a mere expression which you yourself are 'weaponsing' - but the implicit threat of a resumption of terrorism has been a quietly coercive element of that process.

There will never be a physical border between the two Irelands. It simply isn't going to happen. There will be, as there already are (the two countries are in different tax, duty, VAT and currency orbits) technical solutions. The whole business of hyping up the Irish border is deliberate and highly elaborated bullshit.

WTF has my going to Greece on a holiday about 8 years ago got to do with it? You've got a good memory, but not so sure on the logic.
 
Do you not think that the act of actually doing it is not rather worse than merely saying it?

The EU and Ireland have used the Irish border question as a means variously of preventing brexit, holding the UK within the EU customs Union, and holding the UK within the EU's regulatory orbit. Barnier has even admitted as much. This was a deliberate and carefully planned (by the Irish) process that even predates the brexit referendum. Now you might not care for the word 'weaponisation' - as you know, a mere expression which you yourself are 'weaponsing' - but the implicit threat of a resumption of terrorism has been a quietly coercive element of that process.

There will never be a physical border between the two Irelands. It simply isn't going to happen. There will be, as there already are (the two countries are in different tax, duty, VAT and currency orbits) technical solutions. The whole business of hyping up the Irish border is deliberate and highly elaborated bullshit.

WTF has my going to Greece on a holiday about 8 years ago got to do with it? You've got a good memory, but not so sure on the logic.
You claimed to care about the Greeks but you don't appear to care about NI / Ireland border checks... and the impact that will have on the citizens of NI / Ireland and potential for civil unrest. That's the logic. The inference is that it isn't possible to believe any claim that you care about any nation other than your own.
The NI / Ireland was clearly known and spoken about before the ref, this is nothing about the EU using the border as a means of presenting Brexit etc, it is an issue that the UK is directly responsible for bringing about and needs to be working WITH the EU to try and solve. Your claim that there will never be a border is absolute nonsense given the direction we are heading in at the moment.
And then to use "weaponsisation". And to further claim that my criticism of the use of the word is itself "weaponisation" - pathetic, do try and get a grip man.
 
Like I said, EV fully supports the government breaking the law to 'get Brexit dun'. I'm afraid that excludes any pretentions to any kind of sane and rational debate. Stark raving bonkers.
 
Last year's illegality and suspension of Parliament put the Brexiteer integrity firmly in context as well as their concern for Parliamentary democracy. Such humbug. This disaster was always going to be everyone else's fault.
 
The Rabid Right, both here and in USA, have realised that chaos and maximum lying/fake news suits their agenda very well.
A smooth, reasonable, honest progression is a path to equality and social democracy.
 
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Like I said, EV fully supports the government breaking the law to 'get Brexit dun'. I'm afraid that excludes any pretentions to any kind of sane and rational debate. Stark raving bonkers.

It’s the GFA itself that ‘weaponises’ the border.

It only works because the because the border is open. The whole leave campaign was predicated on us having borders with the EU. How did they not notice this might be an issue?

The fact that Brexit supporters can’t see that and almost everyone else in the world can speaks volumes.

Stephen
 
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You claimed to care about the Greeks...

Actually, I didn't, despite decameron's regular pokes to the contrary. What I said was that I cared very much about whether or not we should belong to an institution that was prepared to do what the EU did to the Greek people, which was to eviscerate their economy and thus their livelihoods purely in order to rescue their disastrously flawed project (Ever Closer Union > EMU > Ever Closer Union > USE).

but you don't appear to care about NI / Ireland border checks... and the impact that will have on the citizens of NI / Ireland and potential for civil unrest.

There will be no NI/Ireland border checks at the border, exactly as now.

That's the logic.

No, it isn't.

The inference is that it isn't possible to believe any claim that you care about any nation other than your own.

There's no such inference. You're making it up.

The NI / Ireland was clearly known and spoken about before the ref, this is nothing about the EU using the border as a means of presenting Brexit etc,

Yes, the NI/Ireland border was clearly known and spoken about, as I wrote above. It subsequently became about the EU using the border as a means of preventing brexit/keeping the UK in the SM/CU/keeping the UK within the EU's regulatory orbit. I would go further and speculate that, for certain parties, it was also about the annexation of NI from the UK. You could look upon it as some all-round opportunism on the part of the EU for their purposes and Irish nationalist factions both within and without the Irish government for theirs.

it is an issue that the UK is directly responsible for bringing about and needs to be working WITH the EU to try and solve.

Officials on both sides of the border were working to find techological solutions during the Kenny premiership. This process was very quickly stopped by Varadkar, who is considered something of a Brussels poodle in regard of Brexit, and saw the border in terms of the opportunities that it presented to stymie brexit.

Your claim that there will never be a border is absolute nonsense given the direction we are heading in at the moment.

There is already a border. It is an international one, and it separates two entirely distinct tax, VAT, excise, political, monetary, economic and legal entities.

... And to further claim that my criticism of the use of the word is itself "weaponisation" - ...

That is very precisely what it is.

It’s the GFA itself that ‘weaponises’ the border.

It only works because the because the border is open. The whole leave campaign was predicated on us have borders with the EU. How did they not notice this might be an issue?

The fact that Brexit supporters can’t see that and almost everyone else in the world can speaks volumes.

Stephen

The entire Irish border issue is part of the same fabrication that brought us 'sequencing' the 'Barnier Staircase' and all the rest of the EU/remain bullshit. All of it was and is designed to frustrate brexit, and in the EU's worst case scenario to maintain the EU's regulatory imperialism over the UK, as it enjoys doing over as many of its neighbours as it can.

There is one very straightforward solution to the Irish border issue, and that is the achievement of an FTA between the UK and the EU. The EU, with the connivance of much of the UK establishment, Parliament, Whitehall, the legal profession and global bigCorps, has spent the last 4 years doing everything in its substantial powers to prevent that from happening, and thanks at least in part to the strenuous efforts of Varadkar it quickly came to see that the Irish border would be the single most useful item in its toolkit.
 
Officials on both sides of the border were working to find techological solutions during the Kenny premiership. This process was very quickly stopped by Varadkar
Untrue. Efforts increased on the Irish side, but have been stymied on the UK side by political interference. I have that first hand. What's your source?

The Irish strategy on customs has now shifted to damage limitation as it has become clear that the UK will not be able to implement an adequate arrangement in time for January. They have not even started.

You really have no idea how badly HMRC has been hamstrung in all of this process, even from before the referendum.
 
I’m getting second hand Charles Moore/ Spectator revisionism. Once again, how far are you prepared to go in supporting the Johnson government’s lawlessness?

We’ve had the ‘game changing technology not yet created’ bogus claims from the UK government about managing the border with the EU in the north of Ireland. Look at the patently phoney Covid-testing claims and the rhetoric about ‘Operation Moonshot’- of course no ones going to believe this government.

The EU asked for a guarantee of good faith in the form of the backstop and Johnson has done everything to confirm their suspicions. We have a Prime Minister who is a liar and a cheat who has openly said he will break international law.
 
to maintain the EU's regulatory imperialism over the UK, as it enjoys doing over as many of its neighbours as it can.

How unreasonable to expect neighbours who wish to trade in the same market keep to the same rules and standards and not be allowed to cherry pick. This shower of shite has been brought to you by people who didn’t think any of this through and have been hoofing it ever since.
 
I’m getting second hand Charles Moore/ Spectator revisionism. Once again, how far are you prepared to go in supporting the Johnson government’s lawlessness?

Good luck with that, I got tumbleweed when I asked how much economic reduction was worthwhile. Luckily COVID can cover that now.
 
Actually, I didn't, despite decameron's regular pokes to the contrary. What I said was that I cared very much about whether or not we should belong to an institution that was prepared to do what the EU did to the Greek people, which was to eviscerate their economy and thus their livelihoods purely in order to rescue their disastrously flawed project (Ever Closer Union > EMU > Ever Closer Union > USE).



There will be no NI/Ireland border checks at the border, exactly as now.



No, it isn't.



There's no such inference. You're making it up.



Yes, the NI/Ireland border was clearly known and spoken about, as I wrote above. It subsequently became about the EU using the border as a means of preventing brexit/keeping the UK in the SM/CU/keeping the UK within the EU's regulatory orbit. I would go further and speculate that, for certain parties, it was also about the annexation of NI from the UK. You could look upon it as some all-round opportunism on the part of the EU for their purposes and Irish nationalist factions both within and without the Irish government for theirs.



Officials on both sides of the border were working to find techological solutions during the Kenny premiership. This process was very quickly stopped by Varadkar, who is considered something of a Brussels poodle in regard of Brexit, and saw the border in terms of the opportunities that it presented to stymie brexit.



There is already a border. It is an international one, and it separates two entirely distinct tax, VAT, excise, political, monetary, economic and legal entities.



That is very precisely what it is.



The entire Irish border issue is part of the same fabrication that brought us 'sequencing' the 'Barnier Staircase' and all the rest of the EU/remain bullshit. All of it was and is designed to frustrate brexit, and in the EU's worst case scenario to maintain the EU's regulatory imperialism over the UK, as it enjoys doing over as many of its neighbours as it can.

There is one very straightforward solution to the Irish border issue, and that is the achievement of an FTA between the UK and the EU. The EU, with the connivance of much of the UK establishment, Parliament, Whitehall, the legal profession and global bigCorps, has spent the last 4 years doing everything in its substantial powers to prevent that from happening, and thanks at least in part to the strenuous efforts of Varadkar it quickly came to see that the Irish border would be the single most useful item in its toolkit.
tl;dr
 
Do you not think that the act of actually doing it is not rather worse than merely saying it?

The EU and Ireland have used the Irish border question as a means variously of preventing brexit, holding the UK within the EU customs Union, and holding the UK within the EU's regulatory orbit. Barnier has even admitted as much. This was a deliberate and carefully planned (by the Irish) process that even predates the brexit referendum. Now you might not care for the word 'weaponisation' - as you know, a mere expression which you yourself are 'weaponsing' - but the implicit threat of a resumption of terrorism has been a quietly coercive element of that process.

There will never be a physical border between the two Irelands. It simply isn't going to happen. There will be, as there already are (the two countries are in different tax, duty, VAT and currency orbits) technical solutions. The whole business of hyping up the Irish border is deliberate and highly elaborated bullshit.

WTF has my going to Greece on a holiday about 8 years ago got to do with it? You've got a good memory, but not so sure on the logic.

:D Bravo playing it for laughs. You must be auditioning for the part of Francois in the local 'Brexit the only way is up' play. You have the part.

Is there any truth to the rumours that Farage is on a gun boat patrolling the Irish sea between NI and the main land looking for trouble makers?
The intention is to move on to South Armagh wearing the same clothes as the photoshoot at Dover and conduct border patrols.
 
I’m getting second hand Charles Moore/ Spectator revisionism. Once again, how far are you prepared to go in supporting the Johnson government’s lawlessness?

We’ve had the ‘game changing technology not yet created’ bogus claims from the UK government about managing the border with the EU in the north of Ireland. Look at the patently phoney Covid-testing claims and the rhetoric about ‘Operation Moonshot’- of course no ones going to believe this government.

The EU asked for a guarantee of good faith in the form of the backstop and Johnson has done everything to confirm their suspicions. We have a Prime Minister who is a liar and a cheat who has openly said he will break international law.
Good faith, my arse. The backstop was about stopping brexit, as you know.

Always good to stop digging.

You were that institution. Let's see how much better you've become...
What is that supposed to mean?
 
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