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Brexit: give me a positive effect (2022 remastered edition)

Discussion in 'off topic' started by stevec67, Jan 1, 2022.

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  1. TheDecameron

    TheDecameron Unicorns fart glitter.

    After Leave UK’s historic warning to Germany,

    [​IMG]

    the DM has declared a state of war now exists with France:


    “Non, non, non! Tinpot Napoleon Emmanuel Macron has a cynical plan to give Remoaners a backdoor into a new EU-lite. To which, writes JONATHAN MILLER, there is only one reply…….
    We must see this for what it is: the latest plotting of a tin-pot Napoleon, obsessed by his own vision of a European state, and a politician who cannot understand that — even six years on — Brexit really did mean Brexit”.

    Echoing the words of the Iron Lady, the paper warns that France is now getting above itself (ie above Brexit Island).
     
    tuga likes this.
  2. stevec67

    stevec67 pfm Member

    They didn't vote for sovereignty. It was a word that almost nobody had heard, still less used, in 2016. They voted for "taking back control" which they had already and have no more of now , and for fewer immigrants. We still have them. The factories where I work still run on immigrant labour, the difference is that they are shorter term, less educated, lower skilled and ironically now they really do send the money home because they know they're not staying. The sovereignty line was dreamt up after the vote and was picked up as a buzzword and a convenient shorthand, so it stuck.
     
    tuga and PsB like this.
  3. TheDecameron

    TheDecameron Unicorns fart glitter.

    The Northern Irish are about to get a dose of Sovereignty, good and hard.
     
  4. stevec67

    stevec67 pfm Member

    No it wasn't. The successive conservative government s profited from it, sure, but that's just the usual exploitation of a situation.
     
  5. stevec67

    stevec67 pfm Member

    Yes, and they didn't vote for it. Still, it's democratic, isn't it? If they don't like it they can vote out the government in London, can't they? Oh. They can't.
     
  6. eternumviti

    eternumviti Wittering on the Vine

    A frothing, almost completely incoherent rant from which I can unpick a heap of exaggeration, a lot of false conflation of causes and effects in which there are odd things that I don't have an argument with but that have either little or sfa to do with brexit, all of it entirely intertwined with a seething fury and loathing for the current pm and the current government, a smattering of narrow self-interest, and something that equates to either a complete contempt for, or a total misunderstanding of, the basic principles of sovereign democracy, probably both.

    And for all of your raging fury about and apparent hatred of this Union of countries and its (current) leadership, absolutely no acknowledgement of the brutality, grasping ambition, structural and democratic incoherence and sly furtiveness of - and deficiency of real consent for - the EU project.

    Your posts are imbued with an increasingly furious, spittle-flecked and invective-ridden contempt for the views of anyone - and there aren't that many of us here - who doesn't happen to share your often pretty obscure, ill-constructed and highly partisan opinions on Brexit, the UK, the EU, and the principles of democracy. It is very clear that that contempt extends to those who hold those opinions.

     
    Brian likes this.
  7. eternumviti

    eternumviti Wittering on the Vine

    I briefly read a summary of Macron's speech in the DT yesterday, though unlike you, I haven't read your DM link. If what I read is true - that Macron is attempting to advance the EU project by offering non-member countries what essentially boils down to the political bits of the EU - then he has provided sufficient evidence of his state of haughtily detached delusion to attract the attention of men in flapping white coats.
     
  8. eternumviti

    eternumviti Wittering on the Vine

    They can vote for a NI government that will serve their wishes in due course - give it a decade - and under the terms of the Dublin Agreement, London will be compelled to provide its accord.
     
  9. freefallrob

    freefallrob pfm Member

    My answer to thread the thread title is:

    NONE.

    In my day to day working and family life I experience only downsides, there has been absolutely no tangible benefits to me personally, quite the opposite.
     
    tuga, kendo and ff1d1l like this.
  10. Nick_G

    Nick_G pfm Member

    We have our current PM and cabinet thanks to Brexit. A constant reminder of where it has and is taking this country.
     
    tuga likes this.
  11. eternumviti

    eternumviti Wittering on the Vine

    Some things are constant, Nick, and others aren't. In three years time we will have a Labour government with different policies, but the European Commission will still be there, furtively advancing the EU project without the consent of Europe's citizens, and those citizens will still be unable to do much about it.
     
  12. Enrae8

    Enrae8 pfm Member

    Ah Dear old Elsie ….. Elsie Hall-Thompson left wing activist and campaigner :)
    I do agree with her though :)
     
  13. eternumviti

    eternumviti Wittering on the Vine

    If you believe that the EU is A Good Thing, then there are no tangible benefits to leaving it.

    Believing the EU to be A Good Thing does of course entail a pretty strenuous denial of some awkward realities, but it seems that lots of us can manage that OK.
     
  14. tones

    tones Tones deaf

    One day, perhaps, someone will actually care about us sufficiently to stop using us as a political football or a cheap method of scoring points. Real people's livelihoods (and, given our past history, perhaps even lives) depend on it. I don't have much hope.
     
    tuga, ff1d1l and Sue Pertwee-Tyr like this.
  15. Joe Hutch

    Joe Hutch Mate of the bloke

    There's a huge grey area between thinking the EU is an unqualified Good Thing and thinking it is an Evil Empire. On balance, for various reasons (not least the likely disintegration of the UK now it's outside the EU), I think the UK should have remained in the EU.
     
    tuga, freefallrob, stevec67 and 3 others like this.
  16. eternumviti

    eternumviti Wittering on the Vine

    Fair enough.
     
  17. TheDecameron

    TheDecameron Unicorns fart glitter.

    They can vote for it but they don’t get it because one faction in collusion with your Tory Govt can withdraw it at will. The democratic majority there are about to have their choices overturned.
     
    tuga and Sue Pertwee-Tyr like this.
  18. SteveS1

    SteveS1 I heard that, pardon?

    This old nonsense again.

    The EU is on balance a good thing, that could be better (what couldn't?). Leaving it with no real alternatives to the many benefits, on the pretext of a host of exaggerated or in many cases totally false claims about obligations or constraints would not have been wise from a position of strength, let alone from where the UK was. Encouraging people to believe their situation personally was being 'held back' by membership of something that actually gave them more freedoms, protections and opportunities was pure deception in the interests of a few.
     
    tuga likes this.
  19. eternumviti

    eternumviti Wittering on the Vine

    Withdraw what?
     
  20. eternumviti

    eternumviti Wittering on the Vine

    That's your opinion, with which I profoundly disagree.
     
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